Changing the mindset on how we view human interconnection

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Changing the mindset on how we view human interconnection

Post by JamesN. » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:05 pm

Changing the mindset on how we view human interconnection

I am starting this thread because more and more I think issues are starting to emerge about disasters, recovery, inequality of wealth, and the way society percieves itself, defines what success is, and what is percieved as normal reality. Much of Joseph Campbell's work dealt with changing how human understanding must adapt to meet the demands of a new Global dynamic where the old paradigms are dissolving to give way to a new conciousness of itself.

Our human interconnectedness; sense of community; and the perception of what is of value are challenged when natural disaster or horrendous political injustices of various forms force our mental and emotional sensibilities to a deeper spiritual awareness that we must confront in our interpretation of what is worthy of our societal responsibility to each other.

Here in the US an election has just taken place where the country has been shown to be in just this kind of evolutional debate concerning the creation of wealth with small government verses fairness of equality and societal responsibility and a larger government of regulation. Just this week China also is installing a new leadership where their 2 major concerns of wealth distribution and economic growth model are addressing these same kinds societal and economic issues and adjustments for their population. And indeed across the world as the dramas of the various multicultural and multi-dimentional human dilemmas unfold in this new internet interconnected place in time in which we find ourselves in.

Many of the discussions that take place on these great forums tackle various political and societal conundrums as well as deep philosophical and abstract concepts. ( Other whimsical pursuits not withstanding. )

But concerning the planetary growing pains of ( disaster, relief and recovery, and the questions of global societal resource distribution as well as the new normal concept of climate change ) that are presenting themselves to us; I thought it might be interesting to explore the question of ( mindset ) from how Joseph Campbell's work might help in this understanding and ( it's various possibilities of interpretation ).

I will start with some links from today's news and media examples to set this up.
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Post by JamesN. » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:10 pm

Here are some links to get started:

Poverty:

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/blog ... ark-avenue

http://whypoverty.net/

Sandy:

http://news.yahoo.com/sick-frail-strugg ... 28193.html

http://news.yahoo.com/sandy-refugees-li ... 19452.html

Example of Ingenuity:

http://news.yahoo.com/occupy-sandy-onet ... 17400.html


A growing cross-cultural concern of aging and all the elements that are connected to it that mirrors a coming issue for every country:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19572056



These are just a tiny fraction of examples of growing mindset related " White Elephant " concerns that will in my opinion continue to multiply as limited resources on the planet shrink; demand increases; and plutocratic or political agendas desperately try to hold on to control. Mindsets and points of view must change to meet these coming challenges.

So as difficult and nebulous in this rather clumsy attempt to grapple with this subject may be
; here we go!
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Post by Neoplato » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:11 am

Much of Joseph Campbell's work dealt with changing how human understanding must adapt to meet the demands of a new Global dynamic where the old paradigms are dissolving to give way to a new consciousness of itself.
Unfortunately I’m not seeing the old paradigms dissolving as much as they are becoming entrenched and more volatile. The notion of “Us and Them” still has a great foothold and influence in world politics.
Here in the US an election has just taken place where the country has been shown to be in just this kind of evolutional debate concerning the creation of wealth with small government verses fairness of equality and societal responsibility and a larger government of regulation.
But the people who consider themselves more equal than others still want to take more for them and plunge the country into a state of perpetual war.
Just this week China also is installing a new leadership where their 2 major concerns of wealth distribution and economic growth model are addressing these same kinds societal and economic issues and adjustments for their population.
I won’t hold my breath on that one. It’s more probable China is making a PR effort.
I thought it might be interesting to explore the question of ( mindset ) from how Joseph Campbell's work might help in this understanding and ( it's various possibilities of interpretation ).

I will start with some links from today's news and media examples to set this up.
I still have to explore the links. Thanks for posting them.
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Post by JamesN. » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:35 pm

Hey folks.

On another thread Cindy provided information to MSNBC's Melissa Harris-Perry's weekend show that provided a fascinating dicussion about povery. One of the participants was Dr. Mindy Thompson Fullilove; a noted research and clinical phychiatrist whose important book " Root Shock " provides a penetrating insight into the understanding of the disintergrating effects of the disoreintation that takes place in individuals who suffer from the displacement caused by uprooted or destroyed neighborhoods. The " effects " that are caused by neighborhood destruction in this particular instance give a tremendous and very valuable lesson on understanding what happens to people undergoing the trama of a natural diaster like the one victims of " Sandy " are currently experiencing. ( Think of " Katrina " as you contemplate " Root Shock ". )

( Root Shock: " A tramatic stress reaction related to the destruction of one's emotional eco-system. " )

If you take this particular element and apply it to ( both ) the " economically disadvantaged " and the " disaster related " populations what is immediately apparent is the loss of emotional resources needed to rebound towards a sense of self-efficacy that is required for the navigational skills of recovery. And whether caused by urban engineering; ( war ) which adds a whole different dimension to the equation; or natural diaster this loss of place and connection is critical to the sense of psychological well being and stability that it provides. Nowhere have I seen a more dramatic example of a portrait of the depth of bonding to an identity of place and it's sense of humanity than on last nights " 60 Minutes " segment on " Belle Habor ".

Here are the appropiate links to illustrate:

http://www.rootshock.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PeXf6jgHDc

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-5 ... bsCarousel

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id= ... ryMediaBox

Namaste

Addendum: ( Hey Neo; Sorry I didn't catch your entry here while I was posting but add this to your morning coffee while you are viewing the material. I'll follow up later. )
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Post by JamesN. » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:08 pm

Hey Neo.

( Thanks for responding. Sorry it took a little while to get back to you. ) Indeed the points you raise are correct; but in my view they are visable evidence of exactly the reactions resulting from the causes of these present conditions from which they eminate. The Arab Spring awakening for instance is a great example of the Middle East culture's desire for change. And the chessboard jockeying and manipulation of the UN efforts towards conflict resolution by" global superpowers " and their political agenda's are indeed measures to hold on to power and direct or orchestrate control.

But the point here is directed towards more of a wider swath; ( historically speaking ); in the context of time and cultural awareness; as much as a political or socialogical conciousness concerning emotional and psychological mindset.

" Root Shock " to me is an illuminating insight to understanding some of the dymanics involved here concerning the illustration of " impact " on human beings that global society is going to be facing as the world in it's present trajectory is evolving; both politically and environmentally. And if present circumstances which we both have discussed are any indication of where things are headed; then to survive; our ability to inovate and improvise with ( humane and intelligent understanding ) in it's approach and adaptation will be what is called for in the process. And ( this ) area is where Joseph Campbell's material will be " vital " for looking outside the older paradigm's of past historical cultural mindsets that are in the interplay and process of disolving into the formation of new ones. ( The internet is just one example of a vehicle for this harbinger; and there are many many other areas to cover of this changing new frontier. For instance the world's abilty to feed itself; clean water to drink and air to breath; it's global aging population; climate change weather events; as well as political upheaval. )

Also someone who I think has intelligent insight into global political dynamics; Zbigniew Brzezinski; has interesting things to consider in this 2 page interview.

http://thediplomat.com/2012/09/10/the-i ... rzezinski/

This is all I will add for the moment until you have had time to look at the material and offer your thoughts.


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Post by Neoplato » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:36 pm

These are just a tiny fraction of examples of growing mindset related " White Elephant " concerns that will in my opinion continue to multiply as limited resources on the planet shrink; demand increases; and plutocratic or political agendas desperately try to hold on to control. Mindsets and points of view must change to meet these coming challenges.
I tried to develop a longer response by evaluating the links, but I saw a pattern forming and decided to address this concept overall.

Although I believe that there are many kind hearted people out there willing to come to the aid of others and that the internet has made it much harder to pull the wool over people's eyes, I'm not convinced we are headed for a global evolution of mindfullness toward others.

That is without some type of crisis to help unite the world for a common purpose.

How does a "we" mentality arise out of an "Us and Them"? How does global politics change? How do you convince China to free Tibet?

When the insanity of a few men hold global dominion over billions of people, what can be said to convince them of their "evil" ways? :twisted:

Even though Obama won the election, he's still going to do his best to keep the current infrastructure in place before it collapses upon itself.

Or is a collapse just what we need? :?
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Post by JamesN. » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:38 am

Thanks Neo; a truely thoughtful analysis.

First off I want to address any notion of a impression that these issues are anything less than hardfought dangerous battlelines involving critcal analytical skill and patient negotiation. A naive assumption that peace, love, understanding, and compassion will sweep aside any obstacles would be foolish indeed. But change things must; not because they want to; but because they have to. The world as we know it will not survive otherwise; ( or if it does it will not be the kind of place anyone would want to live in ). Change I think will be the key thing to remember. Where , what , when, how no one knows; ( at least not yet anyway ); but growth from stagnation evolving towards something. Whether forced by circumstance or encouraged by mutual advantage; I think compromise will be another important component.

I liked people like Richard Holbrooke and Warren Christopher, and Madeline Albright for instance during the Clinton years on crisis conflicts like the " Bosnian-Croatian War " as an example. We are going to need that kind of patient, methodical, ( and the word I liked you used ): " mindful " approach when dealing with China, North Korea, Iran, Syria, Packistan or Russia; just to name a few. And we are going to have to look at things from a different point of view as well; especially with China and other Pacific Rim countries. Places like India, Africa, and South America as well as our normal allies like Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia, and Israel will also need special consideration. And speaking from an American position we are going to have to possibly consider changing our viewpoint about ourselves as well.

" Crisis " or perhaps crisis management; is in this case another word we may have to get use to; for paradigms; ( like it or not ); are changing and we are going to have to accept that. That does not however mean we should have to acquiesce to human rights abuse or not stand up for inalienable human rights as well. Millenium of the human struggle for a civilized code of living and quality of life should stand for something. What are the ends of living and not just the means. Who you are in your charactor and not what you have in terms of power or wealth as humane values or qualities worth striving for; these are the lessons and things that history teaches us and that we must remember to pass on. Time tested they are; and strike cords in others as well. They bond us together and remind us of our common identity. This is not to say one should be oblivious to the harsh realities of brutality and oppression; but to use these perspectives as your compass as you find a way to innovate; improvise; conjure up within the context of yourself and your condition how to bring something about. ( No one can necessarily give anybody a magic formula. ) That itself is the journey; ( no )?

I wish I had a solution that would end so much of the misery we see all around. I only know that in trying to figure out my own life maybe the clues are there; ( for me ). But the importance within questions you raise is: ( How do we impliment that? ); to which I can only offer in my reply is: " There is the challenge " and there is " the quest " and there is a " Boon " worthy to bring back. " A Promethus Fire " to heal a torn and broken place; to make a " Them " into an " Us "; " A Common Purpose to Unite " a divided planet or " Heal a Broken Spirit " or a " Broken Heart ".

The stories of the past of how people have done this are all around us; and one need only look in the ways that Joseph Campbell has suggested. As one example; when I heard those stories from those people of " Belle Harbor " in their own words about rescuing each other and holding on to each other for dear life just to survive I was riveted. And while hearing about how by helping each other to survive together no matter if they were kin or not I had the same immediate feeling of empathy that Joseph Campbell mentioned when he referred to the realization: " You and the other are one " and that this is the burning point of what life is. Where you are ripped up out of yourself as in one particular instance where a father was holding his baby above his shoulders in chest high torrent flood waters while towing two other people with his body and this experience just gets to you as only the inspiration of a truely heroic act can. And to hear story after story of these folks who love their community like that and are devoted to it helps you to understand that the material stuff that so many other folks put value into just doesn't matter in the same way these people feel about each other.

So is collapse what we need? Are we just kind hearted folks trying to figure our way through a nebulous uncertain future? Life is as they say;" a mystery ". Joe knew it and left us something. Thank you Joe; Thank you! :D


And thanks for the thoughtful input Neo. :)
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Post by JamesN. » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:19 pm

If I were to look for an example of how to teach a sense of compassion or simply to change a lense of perception used to alter one's view of human value aspiration; ( how we look at what acts human's aspire towards concerning achievement; like fame for instance ); this might be one where the students wind up teaching the adults. :wink:


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/mid ... 54658.html
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Post by CarmelaBear » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:39 pm

When I was an undergraduate, I took a course in political science that basically had one message, reapeated over and over.

The message was that people like me are OUT and as down and low as it is possible to get.

To live my life, I cannot have that message taking over my mind, my heart, my soul.

I have to live in a world of possibility and hope and more than a chance to be IN the loop and part of life, where the action is.

Ideas. There is a world of ideas. It gives me something tangible that I can call my own.

Idea Number One: The American Dream is mine to create. Maybe you need a house that you own and it has a garage for a new car. That's cool. I don't need that. I need a place to live where I am welcome and I belong. I need to be part of a life that makes sense to me.

I have what I need, dependent on others who need me, too. If I died tomorrow, there would be no one who does what I do in the useful way I do it. The consequences would be real and would be sad.

I know I could make change happen in the world, but I don't know anyone else who is in a position to do so. Knowing that is not much help. I'm alone in this knowledge.

I cannot identify with the rich. I certainly can identify with the poor. Both want power to either keep what they have or get what they lack. Those of us with something of value......(I defy anyone to suggest that money alone can buy a law degree from Harvard)....can live in what Campbell called a place that is "hermetically sealed". We carve out safety and satisfaction for ourselves. We find a way to breathe and to think and to feel and to be in the world with as much happiness as we can handle without falling over from the weight of it. 8)

~

There are the super rich with faces......the philanthropists like Gates and Buffett......but many more who do not seem human. They seem sinister. :twisted:

If you live in America, you live in an unsafe neighborhood. If you live on Planet Earth, you live in abject poverty of the spirit, and you are a target for Mother Nature who is being manipulated by systems more powerful than the weather.

I do not find hope in the world. I find it only in my heart, where I feel safe and I know a kind of bliss that cannot be touched.

I can either change the world for the better or I can abandon it. I cannot accept it as it is. It is grotesque and it generates pain. :x

:!:
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Post by JamesN. » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:47 pm

Hey folks.

On another thread Cindy provided information to MSNBC's Melissa Harris-Perry's weekend show that provided a fascinating dicussion about povery. One of the participants was Dr. Mindy Thompson Fullilove; a noted research and clinical phychiatrist whose important book " Root Shock " provides a penetrating insight into the understanding of the disintergrating effects of the disoreintation that takes place in individuals who suffer from the displacement caused by uprooted or destroyed neighborhoods. The " effects " that are caused by neighborhood destruction in this particular instance give a tremendous and very valuable lesson on understanding what happens to people undergoing the trama of a natural diaster like the one victims of " Sandy " are currently experiencing. ( Think of " Katrina " as you contemplate " Root Shock ". )

( Root Shock: " A tramatic stress reaction related to the destruction of one's emotional eco-system. " )
http://news.yahoo.com/mental-health-tol ... AAsXPQtDMD

The above quote is taken as a reference to the ( example ) link I am giving to a condition I think we are going to see more of from events like " Sandy "; " Fukushima "; " refugee camps " caused by conflict or other such horrific tragedies whether here or in other parts of the world. ( Tragedy is not new ); but I believe this emerging manifestation of these increasing numbers of tragedies and of it's effects is a kind of metaphoric mindset humankind is going to have to interface as it confronts the planet's new demands as it evolves. The current global infrastructure model of economic supply and demand just is not going to be able to handle the load. Global warming; weakened economies; clean water to drink and the world's ability to feed itself; along with political and religious conflict and unrest; and a whole host of other dynamics along with increasing overpopulation is going to force change.

How this is going to play out no one knows exactly; but this IMHO is the type of change Joseph Campbell was referring to when he mentions in POM we are in a " freefall or new paradigm " concerning the future.

And although this reference to the connection of " Sandy " and " Root Shock " may seem a little exaggerated and nebulous to these larger aspects; IMHO mental health is going to become a greater and greater concern because of these issues and the demands that are being placed on the human psychological abilities to adapt; especially given the tendancy of people to hang on to older cultural; philosophical; and religious perceptions. ( Not to mention the economic and political interests that are presenly being served. ) Things will have to change because there is no other choice. ( But then there will always be those who will be dragged kicking and screaming into the future while desparetely hanging on to the past. ) And although this may be a somewhat ragged attempt at an overview; as we contemplate what lies ahead for the new year; look at all that has happened in this last one that will be played out on the media's annual retrospect specials.

I claim no " Chrystal Ball " and perhaps some associates may have a different view; but this is the sense of things I am getting looking forward from here at the moment.


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Post by jufa » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:44 pm

We speak of different and choices we have. Only when disaster take place do we question and ask what kind mindset is this world approaching on one hand. And on the other we cry out what kind of God would allow this or that to occur? In desperation of the moment's events we cry out, "God I do not know what you want of me, for I have given you my all." We have given nothing but our continuous selfishness to the world.

"Circumstances do not make peoples nor the society lived within. They reveals who they truly are of themselves when they realize they are not alone in their thinking, nor shaping of the patterns which are institutionalized by the mindset of thought projection. No such conditions can exist as descending into vice and its attendant sufferings apart from vicious inclinations of purpose, or ascending into virtue and its pure happiness without the continued cultivation of virtuous aspirations of the spirits one project. And with each individual being the lord and master of their thoughts, intention and will, they truly are the masters of who furnish the houses of their souls, and constructor and author of their environment. To do nothing but debate the turmoils of the displaced mentality which changes not the down position of the pendulum is worst than what :?:

At birth the soul comes to its own. Through every step of its earthly pilgrimage, upon the highway of thoughts, its owner emanate and attracts those combinations of conditions which reveals itself through the reflections of its own pure, impure strength and weakness of those thoughts accepted and rejected in the individual conscious which enlarge and spread outward to children who impress them into their world to be.

No individual, neighbor, community, county, state or nation attract that which they want in the Spirit of Righteousness, only that which they have taken of thought to be their own and lived by in active demonstration by following the mentality of the collective whole. Be it Obama or Romney, democrat or republican, free-thinker or dictator, their whims, fancies, and ambitions are never thwarted by the attitude of "this far, and no further" will we allow you to proceed, because the day of the rebels and crusaders have been hidden in the my, my, my attitude at every step. Hindered is ones responsibility and potential or righteousness, for conscience sake, of each and every individuals who lives and believes in the reality of the fleshly intellect. Their inmost thoughts and desires are fed with their own food of interpreted thinking, be it foul or clean.

Few individuals it be who dare travel through the mind to reach the divinity that shapes their beginning and ends of who they believe they are as men of flesh. Every individual is manacled only by their beliefs, thoughts and actions. They are either the jailer of own fate individually and societal --their imprisonment to the sentient intellect. Or being based, they are the angels of freedom--their own liberate, their own noble aristocratic Conscience of Burning.

Not what and individual wishes and prays are rewarded to them. Only what they justly earns according to the Spirit Principles and Patterned rhythm of the law of THAT WHICH IS. All wishes and prayers, whether good or evil, are gratified, answered, and received whole, perfect, complete, and pure in conformity to the thoughts and actions willed by the individuality of combined thinking which sprouts man's leaders.

Every individual continually revolting against things their souls seeks to reject while their sentient minds are nourishing and preserving its cause at all cost by continuous reelecting, or putting their trust in someone other than themselves. And by such reiteration of irresponsibility, the cause for greed, dissection of minds take the form of conscious vice or unconscious weakness. Whatever it is though, it stubbornly retards the efforts of its possessor and followers.

Every individual is anxious to improve their circumstances, but are unwilling to improve themselves. They therefore remain bound. The person who does not shrink from self-crucifixion can never fail to accomplish the object upon which their heart is set. This is as true of earthly as heavenly things. Even the man whose sole object is to acquire wealth must be prepared to make great personal sacrifices before he can accomplish his object; and how must more so he who would realize a strong and well-poised life :?:
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Post by CarmelaBear » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:05 pm

We personally experience the disintegration that Campbell describes. We look around us and the culture is all about that experience, multiplied endlessly into the infinity of our awareness.

How does Campbell step outside the chaos to tell us about it?

I live in a bubble life, where I have only left Albuquerque a few times in the last 15 years, and the physical radius of daily life is limited to a few places and carefully scheduled times. Here, I am far away from Katrina and Sandy and the Indonesian tsunami and the wars in the Middle East, and I am so touched by these events and a mountain of others that inside my protected, sheltered world, there is chaos of complex sensibility and awareness and feeling. Empathy is overwhelmed. It is all I can do to place the tragedy in perspective and function normally.

This is the current human condition. One is either buried in it directly and personally or indirectly, through a massive tsunami of information about a world slamming into all the private places we have been lucky enough to inherit and create from scratch.

I love the stories. They help me place my socks in my sock drawer so that the black ones are with the black ones and the tan ones are with the tan ones. A good day is when I care about wearing two black ones, one on either foot.

~
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Post by jufa » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:10 pm

CarmelaBear, your words are the words of compassion. Touching, yet leaving us with the certainty of our uncertainty. The Bee Gee's ask: "How can you mend a broken heart. How can a loser ever win?" For me, it began with recognition I have been irresponsible to those of like kind, which are people everywhere who call for my respond and I became a shadow.

Pureness is pure only when expanded for the betterment of the whole, not individually. For the individual is only a disappearing part of Pureness, in this parenthesis of time, space, distance and matter, or words, pictures, imagination, and thoughts

We of today's conscious mentality are the end result of our ancestors mentality. We hold all the good and evil spirit of thought action and demonstrative thinking which build the bridges we crossed to get where we are today. And so, it is not about you and I, it is about the our effort of cleansing that which began this material journey of ignorance, and belief there is nothing we can do to change the world the universe except :?:

The reality of change necessity within self is what turned Campbell from being carefree to caring about his placement in the world. Campbell, as all wise me of Spirit virtue when away from the god of the intellect and let the God within him fire him with the Spirit of burning. Campbell came to understand It was about man's ignorance of understanding we stand upon and believe in inverted planted seed which produced roots which grew further into the soil of the ground, then the head growth into the sunlight.

Campbell sat out on a mission to find out why this mentality of yesterday continue to occur today. Look and read what Campbell discovered for himself, and than passed onward to that "after his kind." We, as Campbell, are purposed to make the time, space, distance and matter of our living more expanding and brighter than it was when we were place in it. Something or nothing is our choice. What are we going to do about it?
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Post by CarmelaBear » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:02 pm

Our universe would not exist if it were pure and perfect. Imperfection is what makes creation possible.

I am participating in this adventure, enjoying it in every way, including the negative ways. Being happy in one's misery is a special skill for those who know how to juggle the ups and downs.

Thank you for your eastern wisdom, Jufa. :) You are a very special guide along the path. I especially like the reference to the broken heart and the loser. Life has a way of humbling everyone.

I'm easy to humble, because I've seen myself as a solver of problems in spite of all my own problems left unsolved. Losing is living, I think. How can it all be winning? Impossible.

There are days when I observe people working rather hard to destroy lives, despoil the planet and ruin the economy, and I think I see obvious solutions to the problems. I wonder how it is that effective, timely action is not forthcoming. The powerful (if any exist) are not doing their jobs well. The rest of us are tired of witnessing the dysfunction.

In a few short years, "solutions" may all reveal themselves as delusions and a great mirage on a distant desert floor. My own awareness and concern will cease. Til then, I wonder about everything and keep on keeping on.

8)
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by jufa » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:20 am

I ask myself, jufa, what can we achieve in our happiness of misery knowing we entered this world with nothing, and will leave as we entered?:? The joy, the pain, the good, the bad are attached to what then :?: Why strive for enlightenment, bliss, or a higher conscious order when we are born to die :?:

Yes, our universe would not exist if it were pure and perfect.:lol: But that is the catch, isn't it, the claim it is ours? The universe was before we were, how then can we lay claim to it, or any part of it? Is not our universe, our world that which contains only our perspective, opinions, ideas, prejudices, and all that jazz? :lol:

Look at the savagery of our ancestors concerning people. Look at the savagery today. Look how far we come to get back where we started from. Savagery sophisticated in savagery :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

Is there something we can do :roll: :?: :idea: Should we even try?
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