Changing the mindset on how we view human interconnection

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CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:40 pm

I was speaking to the fallout of societal success in overcoming some forms of violence.

Non-violent people provoke violence in others, often knowingly and with that purpose.

Internally non-violent societies also express their violent tendencies through sanctioned forms of violence, especially toward those they regard as weak and inferior.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I was addressing the article per se.

~
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Post by JamesN. » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:21 pm

CarmelaBear wrote:I was speaking to the fallout of societal success in overcoming some forms of violence.

Non-violent people provoke violence in others, often knowingly and with that purpose.

Internally non-violent societies also express their violent tendencies through sanctioned forms of violence, especially toward those they regard as weak and inferior.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I was addressing the article per se.

~

Thank you Carmela. That was what I was trying to determine. :wink: :)
Last edited by JamesN. on Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:49 pm

8)
JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. » Fri May 09, 2014 11:54 pm

I came across this announcement and I will most definitely be on the lookout and interested in what the " First Lady " has to say for IMHO if anyone has a child they have a stake in this issue. And although barbaric incidents like this have happened throughout history; actually even taken out of context I think this speaks to much larger global concerns about the notion or idea of what is acceptable and constitutes becoming a civilized human being in the 21st century. I'm just glad someone like her is actually stepping up and speaking out to the world at large about this. Malala was the first; now others need to! :idea:

http://news.yahoo.com/first-lady-gives- ... 42983.html
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JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. » Sat May 10, 2014 2:55 pm

Here was the speech First Lady Michelle Obama made in protest of the kidnapping of over 200 Nigerian girls from their dormitory by the Boko Haram.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-vi ... out-tragic
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CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear » Tue May 13, 2014 10:47 am

The kidnapping was done in the name of "Allah", just as the Crusades and the Inquisition were sanctioned in the name of "Christ".

:shock:
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JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. » Tue May 13, 2014 12:10 pm

What concerns me the most about this situation is the fact that the more than 200 girls held captive by Boko Haram leader Abubakar Shekau have become bargaining chips; and that their safety may be in even more jeopardy than before. :( At least now the international community is involved; but the outcome is still very precarious for the welfare of these young girls. A cruel power hungry tyrant with a dominating religious agenda is a very bad combination in this particular dilemma. ( Let's hope that cooler heads will provide a solution as uncertain as things seem at the moment. ) :roll:

( Here is a recent update from the BBC ):

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-27398640
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CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear » Wed May 14, 2014 4:06 am

The group is killing hundreds of villagers and levelling their communities. It is taking place with impunity.

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Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by JamesN. » Thu May 15, 2014 4:35 pm

I saw this and thought it raises an interesting point about mindset and perception. If doctors can present an issue such as " gun control " as an aspect of a child's public health concern more than a " human right to bear arms " issue; how can the general public also be persuaded to change it's mindset on other issues by looking them through a different lens as well?

http://news.yahoo.com/doctors-fight-nra ... FCQUNLMl8x

The point I'm suggesting here is: " If the way something is framed alters our perception of it; how do we as a human society " learn " to see through the barriers that keep us at odds without all the excess turmoil that usually accompanies or entails this kind of change? " Joseph talked about some of these concerns from several different viewpoints such as culturally, psychologically, as well as mythically. ( I'm not saying this can or cannot happen; but just trying to suggest seeing things like this " outside the box " as food for thought. ) :idea:
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CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear » Thu May 15, 2014 5:01 pm

For folks like us "gun control" is an issue. For gun owners it is an entirely emotional fear of being denied the ability or opportunity to assume power over someone who poses a threat.

It is not a matter of reason. For them, it is about being scared to death.

Liberals are not very good at reassuring or calming folks who are having a meltdown over situations and people who give them conniptions.

Obama's and the Clintons' response to national security issues are identical to those of the far right. Why? Because they are scared...literally....out of their minds. They stop being rational and they just point the gun and pull the trigger.

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Post by JamesN. » Thu May 15, 2014 5:21 pm

CarmelaBear wrote:For folks like us "gun control" is an issue. For gun owners it is an entirely emotional fear of being denied the ability or opportunity to assume power over someone who poses a threat.

It is not a matter of reason. For them, it is about being scared to death.

Liberals are not very good at reassuring or calming folks who are having a meltdown over situations and people who give them conniptions.

Obama's and the Clintons' response to national security issues are identical to those of the far right. Why? Because they are scared...literally....out of their minds. They stop being rational and they just point the gun and pull the trigger.

~
Carmela if I may; I am not saying the lines of these kinds of arguments are not well dug-in for whatever the reasons they may have. But breaking through the political conundrums and the " mindsets " that are produced by them is the point. What caught my attention in the article was that the doctors had the political savvy and awareness to realize raising animosity is what creates the stalemates with which these groups hold the public welfare hostage. If finding a common ground to create change can move the ball forward as it were; then changing the way the public ( perceives ) and " understands " the issue would be the starting place to begin any kind of reasonable dialogue that can bring some sort of agreement to bring this about. ( So again the question I am suggesting is: " How does one accomplish this? " Not that both sides are firmly entrenched. ) :wink:


_________________________


Addendum: I just saw this article about a new political issue emerging on the horizon. As you read through it you can see some of the dynamics I just mentioned with the competing sides starting to take shape. Will they be able to find common ground; or will they produce a standoff? ( And yes they could also " kick the can down the road "; but again that is not the point. ) Creating the tools for changing the mindset; producing dialogue; preventing stalemate; etc. is more what I am trying to get at; looking at the way one approaches an issue instead of just reaction to it.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/comes-con ... 46369.html
Last edited by JamesN. on Thu May 15, 2014 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by CarmelaBear » Thu May 15, 2014 5:40 pm

When the right tries to talk, the left censors their speech. A start would be for the righteous liberals to listen carefully, because I'm not sure we actively listen to what they are saying. Listen carefully to this guy. It may shock you, but if you can empathize, then it is a start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nItEcnyYsD0

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by Neoplato » Thu May 15, 2014 5:50 pm

JamesN. wrote: If the way something is framed alters our perception of it; how do we as a human society " learn " to see through the barriers that keep us at odds without all the excess turmoil that usually accompanies or entails this kind of change? " Joseph talked about some of these concerns from several different viewpoints such as culturally, psychologically, as well as mythically.
" How does one accomplish this? "
How do you convince an alcoholic to stop drinking when he won't admit he has a drinking problem? (Hiccup)

Sometimes people are having too much fun identifying with the chase of the pink elephants to think of the consequences of anything else (especially with the idea of "What if they don't exist?")
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Post by CarmelaBear » Thu May 15, 2014 6:07 pm

Neo, I kinda like the pink ones. As elephants go, they can be cool.

The red ones are a mixed bag. The white ones can be trouble.

But pink ones....well, I guess it depends...

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by JamesN. » Thu May 15, 2014 6:51 pm

Yes Carmela I see your point about empathy; and that is well taken and part of the issue; granted. But perception of what constitutes " self defense " as opposed to the " societal welfare " is not necessarily the same thing. But before this discussion settles just on ( " gun control " instead of " conflict resolution " ) is something I probably should clarify here; hence the connection to the main topic theme of the thread.

Welcome back Neo; I hope all is well for you these days.

How do you convince an alcoholic to stop drinking when he won't admit he has a drinking problem? (Hiccup)

Sometimes people are having too much fun identifying with the chase of the pink elephants to think of the consequences of anything else (especially with the idea of "What if they don't exist?")
And since you have brought this up perhaps you have a solution for the ( " Defense against " Pink Elephants " syndrome ) which the gun lobbyists seem to insist that the general public " arm " themselves against? :idea:

I overheard an interesting conversation in Costco awhile back where upon two employees were privately discussing AR-15's and one said to the other: " Yes; tell him I can sell him up to 10 of them if need be. " :shock:

Here in Tennessee we just passed one of those " Guns Everywhere " bills that are so popular in the " Red " states; you know; good for bars, churches, parks, shopping malls; traffic encounters of road rage; etc. But I think more to the point might be how do we help make people safe; not by giving a teacher a gun to help protect the school classroom. There is a huge difference between a " home invasion " and seeing any adversary as an enemy; and I certainly don't think you saying otherwise; ( any of us would do whatever we felt was necessary to protect our children or our families ); and having a disagreement with someone does not constitute a threat to personal safety. But I think there are some major distinctions that need to be cleared up within the conversation that politically is taking place; ( but as " in the article " you have to establish a " dialogue " first before that can happen ). :wink:

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