Art and Patronage

Discussion of Joseph Campbell's work with an emphasis on the personal creative impulse as well as the sociological role of the artist in today's global community.

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honjaku
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Art and Patronage

Post by honjaku » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:58 am

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Post by Clemsy » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:01 am

There are two sides to every coin, Honjaku, and the old system of patronage gave us the works of the immortals: Shakespeare, Raphael, Michelangelo, da Vinci, etc.

However, the patrons often narrowed the limits of their artists. We have lots of religious art... but what don't we have as a result? Shakespeare had to constantly make sure the themes his work didn't tweak the noses of the Elizabethan court.
Today the system is many miles wide and only a few inches deep. Anybody can put up content at any time and made it immediately available almost for free.
I think "shallow" casts to wide a net. There's probably more good stuff out there than ever before, but sorting through the mass of product is a trip! One benefit of this, however, is that when something surfaces, it's not always because of corporate canning and promotion. Something resonates and suddenly you have an artist or musician able to feed herself.

Here's an example: Watched an episode of Bones last year. There was a song at the end that was so attractive I had to find it. Net search at the time brought up nothing. Saw the same episode again, and now the search produced a result. The name of the song is Bring on the Wonder. Check it out HERE. If you ordr the CD, her mom will package and ship it from her NYC apartment!
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by honjaku » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:59 am

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Post by Clemsy » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:58 am

And how much of a living can she make anyway?
Honjaku, Enan makes enough to tour the country and Europe. She now has a dedicated following, does small venues. She even does 'kitchen concerts' in people's homes along her tour route. She's doing okay and will probably do even better.

Why buy? Respect for the artist and... I do most of my music listening in the car. Besies, the whole CD isn't available for free listening.

I will disagree with you about artists requiring structure and form from patrons. Patrons requisition what they want. I can't help but wonder what a Michelangelo would have done if he had been given reign to do what he wanted.

Besides, authors like Stephen King are more than free to do what they want. Success will do that. Today, without the fetters of patronage, successful artists are... well... unfettered.

Artists like Vladimir Kush, because of the Internet and its viral tendencies, can do what they want. Success is no longer determined strictly by corporate exploitation, canning and promotion.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by honjaku » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:47 am

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Post by Clemsy » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:08 pm

Well, Honjaku, sounds to me like your patron-artist relationship resembles parent-child. Isn't the patron just using the artist for his own 'narcissistic' purposes?

Not that narcisissim isn't somethimes involved. If the product is something like Mozart's Requiem... so what?

However, I would posit there are artists, authors, etc. who aren't just satisfying infantile desire in their free expression...

I would say Campbell had a patron during his five years of private study. At Sarah Lawrence he had an employer who allowed him free reign to develop his own curriculum. I do think there's a diffeence between the two.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by honjaku » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:35 pm

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Post by honjaku » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:37 am

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Post by honjaku » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:43 am

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Post by Cindy B. » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:48 am

Clemsy wrote:However, I would posit there are artists, authors, etc. who aren't just satisfying infantile desire in their free expression...
...or creating solely for the purpose of making money or a living. Those with an artistic bent are driven to create irrespective of outside influences.

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by Clemsy » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:57 pm

Cindy B. wrote:
Clemsy wrote:However, I would posit there are artists, authors, etc. who aren't just satisfying infantile desire in their free expression...
...or creating solely for the purpose of making money or a living. Those with an artistic bent are driven to create irrespective of outside influences.

Cindy
Yes, precisely. I recall when my brother was learning to play the guitar. There was a drive in him that was remarkable. He would practice 16 hours a day. When he evolved into a songwriter, he didn't compose for any other reason than he had to compose.

As far as I'm concerned, that's the difference between an artist and everyone else without the passion to create.

I'm going to split this conversation over to Mythos: For the Creative Community
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by Clemsy » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:35 pm

I don't know if I would call it parent-child but even if we did I'm not sure its that bad.
Honjaku, the thing about this is that one is assumed to be immature and require guidance, the other to have maturity and wisdom.

The assumption seems to be that artists are immature and require guidance and patrons are mature and wise. :?


There is a difference between art tailored toward public taste, and unfettered free expression which resonates with the public.

The best of all patrons says, "Do as you will" not "Do as I wish."

Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by Evinnra » Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:54 am

When the Buddhist monk or nun goes around asking for alms, it is the GIVER of alms that bows respectfully and says: Thank you.

Any of you happens to know why? :)
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
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Post by honjaku » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:32 am

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Post by honjaku » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:41 am

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