Art and Patronage

Discussion of Joseph Campbell's work with an emphasis on the personal creative impulse as well as the sociological role of the artist in today's global community.

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Evinnra
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Post by Evinnra » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:13 am

:lol: :lol: This is precious, honjaku, I have to quote it! 8)
honjaku wrote:
Q. How many modern artists does it take to screw on a light bulb?
A. Four. One to throw the lights bulbs against the wall, another to spray paint them orange, the third to duct tape them to a cocker spaniel and the fourth to plug them in and then have a nervous breakdown when the vision of 'orange glowing in the dark' is not appreciated.

Q. How many art directors does it take to screw on a light bulb?
A Does it have to be a light bulb?

Q. How many modern art viewers does it take to screw on a light bulb?
A. Two. One to screw it on and the other to say 'my four year old could have done that'.

:lol:

Did I mention how glad I am to have left the only art is real only I and my squiggles in my backyard matter scene. Wait I must have :-D
From previous posts of yours I gathered you already know why is it the giver of alms that say ‘Thank you’ to the receiver of alms in the Buddhist tradition. So, I wonder why would you say the a patron has the right to influence the skilled person. If life is a ‘give and take’ and the patron receives the benefit from life that s/he is in the position to support a skilled person, why should this patron waste the benefit by interfering in the work of the skilled ? A patron who finds it necessary to interfere with the skilled person’s work is not acting in the role s/he should. If s/he is not happy with his/her protege, s/he OUGHT TO select a different protege to benefit – as selecting the right person to benefit IS his/her role – rather than dabbling into the affairs of the skilled. No?

I think those patrons who dare to interfere with the work of the skilled end up making an absolute fool of themselves and waste their advantage, which they would have received from life otherwise. :roll:
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
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honjaku
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Post by honjaku » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:51 am

Edited
Last edited by honjaku on Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andreas
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Post by Andreas » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:36 pm

This is a very useful function that helps bring the content out to a wider audience in a way that is much more easily absorbable and in the process the patron's organization might have useful suggestions about the content to help make it so.
Why does it need to be easily absorbable? So are you saying that the patron job is to make suggestion that cut down an artists vision to what the market needs are? :? :lol:
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki
Evinnra
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Post by Evinnra » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:08 pm

Honjaku, I was laboring under the impression that we both agreed on at least one point: it is the patron who selects who gets support! and the patron does not select arbitrarily. (if s/he is in his/her right mind, that is) By selecting the skilled individual, the patron already did as much as expected or can be expected of the patron. My point was, if I can put it even simpler, that the patron practically undermines his/her own interest by interfereing with the skilled person's activities. I never said a patron should just support whomever puts a hand out for donation!!! Indiscriminate patronage is just as harmful for society as not supporting those who are in fact deserve patronage.

As for going off to the Himalayas and begging for alms, if that's what it takes to remain pure then that's exactly what a monk or nun will do. :wink:
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Post by Neoplato » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:15 pm

As for going off to the Himalayas and begging for alms, if that's what it takes to remain pure then that's exactly what a monk or nun will do.-Evinnra
I wonder if Mr. Abominable has room in his cave for me? Sounds tempting at times. :wink:
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Post by Evinnra » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:29 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

We must have been separated at birth, Neo! :D
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Post by Neoplato » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:51 pm

We must have been separated at birth, Neo!

My family comes from eastern Europe, but I'm not too sure where. Borders changed regularly back then.
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Post by honjaku » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:10 am

Edited
Last edited by honjaku on Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by honjaku » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:11 am

Edited
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Andreas
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Post by Andreas » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:14 am

Honjaku,
If you don't care at all about what others think and you dont think you have anything to learn from feedback what does that say about you?
Perhaps you are talking about yourself here. If feedback and constructive criticism, for you, means to manipulate art for making money, what does that say about you? :lol:

There is a difference between making a piece of story coherent (and I am talking about films here) and manipulating an artist vision to what you think is gonna bring more money. It seems to me that you do not know the limits or the difference of different kinds of criticism.

However I do live in a modern world and when I go to work for a company or a studio I am aware that are not my money on the line nor my vision and I have to take direction that is different from what you say though. And I have a strong desire to eat sometime.
In anycase why would anybody be interested in your visions anyway? Why should I be? Trust me nobody is. What do you think you are better than me?
:shock:

So you are saying that the only reason one would be interested in an artist work is money? Is that all you get when you look at a Dali or other great artists? :?

Yes honjaku indeed we live in a system that is not perfect for free unfettered expression but there are those who have risen above it and we must appreciate both their contribution and their art. This is how I see it.

I still don't understand what your problem is?
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki
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Post by Cindy B. » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:45 am

Andreas wrote:I still don't understand what your problem is?
Not everyone has a strong creative streak, Andreas, so I think it's a mere matter of different ways of being and experience and the perceptions arising from these differences. :)

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by honjaku » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:28 am

Edited
Last edited by honjaku on Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Evinnra
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Post by Evinnra » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:15 pm

honjaku wrote:
In any case in this post modern world everything is subjective and so there can be no great or not so great artists they are all the same.
:shock: Ouch! That hurts, honjaku! I do hope you were writing this in jest, for if artists, academics, politicians etc. look all the same to you, I'd recommend you not to invest money or your time in any one of them. You can always waste your money or time with less frustrating methods such as gambling. :?

Namaste, :)
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
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Post by Dionysus » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:38 pm

That was satire, making fun of the whole do it yourself only me and my vision matter culture of the web...hmm did you not understand my satirical vision? Wink.
H, Satire is a very low form of humor. Is it necessary?
No, if I am into my own vision in my own theater, no longer in a 'parent-child' relationship, master of my own domain, creator of my own universe, free and unfettered, untainted by society, pure as a glass of ganges water, I should then have no reason to be interested in any other artists work period. In any case in this post modern world everything is subjective and so there can be no great or not so great artists they are all the same.
Okay, then, so why all the bitchin'? --D.
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Post by Clemsy » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:01 pm

D, satire isn't a low form of humor, although it can be used in such a way. Without satire how can we laugh at ourselves?

Personally... I don't get satire from Honjaku's posts... but perhaps I'm having a slow day. As far as I'm concerned the center of this discussion keeps shifting. Since I've had my say, and don't really care about changing minds, I've moved on.

Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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