Parzival and the rights of the people

Are you looking for a quotation that you can't quite place? Trying to track down a hard-to-find publication? Here, folks can help you find the answers, or discuss ways for you to discover them for yourself.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

Locked
indraant
Associate
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:56 am

Parzival and the rights of the people

Post by indraant » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:04 pm

Listened to a Campbell talk recently, the one in which he speaks about The Holy grail, and the arthurian romances.

He quotes Wolfram von Eschenbach's Parzival , book XVI and there's a line that really hit me.

„...if any member of this company by the grace of God shall become the ruler of an alien people, a foreign people..., let him not speak of his liniage and let him see to it that they gain and are given their rights. „

Campbell says that this my be the first time the rights of the people in Western Civlilization are mentiond.

A listened to a few courses of political philosophy and theory but i have never heard of it, Magna Charta is alway mentioned, as Campbell says, but this never.

I tired to find the quote from antoher source but coudn't. I found the original text online on bibliotheca augustana, but my understandig of medieval German is zero. Does the quote in the original appear in the same way?

My question is has someone done some work on the subject, and what is the context in which it is given?

Indraant
User avatar
noman
Associate
Posts: 670
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:26 am

Post by noman » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:50 am

Indraant,

Here is how I found it in an English translation:

“any Templar whom God’s hand gave as their lord to foreign peoples should forbid questions about his name or his lineage and that he should help them to their rights.”
The real inspiration here for me is the mention of lineage. This is, according to Campbell, the earliest example of the idea made famous in the American mythos that ‘all men are created equal’. We don’t have inherited titles here. Before Parcival, heroes had to have lineage. The Magna Carta was about nobles nibbling at the king's power. This was the gray beginning of a totally novel idea, of a complete meritocracy, a new myth for a new age.

- NoMan
indraant
Associate
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:56 am

Post by indraant » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:04 am

Thanks.

This is even more powerful. He is appointed by God, and we are all equal in oru rights as God's creatures. You could almost fit a little of John Lock in this.

But if the liniage is unimportant what thoes make a man king, only the hero deed guided by the hand of God?


Indraant
User avatar
Samarra
MRT Leader
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Montes Carpatus
Contact:

The Man king

Post by Samarra » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:05 pm

Indraant wrote:what does make a man king, only the hero deed guided by the hand of God?
Image

And thus Parzivall, the hero guided my God, becomes the grail king.

So then every person becomes a king when they listen to that voice of God, the Universe, The Force, etc. telling them to follow their bliss – which is the real Holy Grail, now isn’t it?
Image
User avatar
bodhibliss
Working Associate
Posts: 1659
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:00 am

Post by bodhibliss » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:40 pm

Just a note on finding quotes from foreign language works referenced by Joseph Campbell: unless J.C. is quoting from an English translation, you will rarely find exactly the same wording he presents, as he usually read the work in the original language and provided a direct translation of passages he cited.

I don't read Sanscrit, but I do read German, and generally Campbell's quotations strike me as capturing the sense as well as or better than most published translations. If one can't read the language of the original passage, then I'd recommend finding as many translations as possible in order to penetrate the nuances.
indraant
Associate
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:56 am

Post by indraant » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:14 pm

He quoted the passage in mind from the english translation by Helen M. Mustard and Charles E. Passage.
Locked