Hi Jonjonsjourney wrote: Romansh...I think we do have to ask ourselves is it possible that our human consciousness allows us the ability to act in ways that are effectively unnatural?
The more I think about it natural and unnatural (like supernatural) are false dichotomies.
I'm not denying consciousness by any means; I will use it on a day to day basis to 'survive'. But that definitely does not mean what we perceive or experience is in any way accurate.jonsjourney wrote: I am not trying to dispute evolutionary origins and the operations of natural selection on how human consciousness may function. Maybe, as I said, it just appears that we are capable of operating outside of nature. Maybe, we actually are capable of this paradox. I cannot really be objective about this because I am the observer attempting to describe both the observer and the observed. Scientific agreement helps us to uncover truths, but when we get to the bottom of it all, just like in philosophy, we seem to circle back upon ourselves and only find more questions.
"It seems ... a philosophical question" ... OK we'll never know with absolute certainty whether we have free will or not. Speaking personally, on a day to day basis I behave as though I have free will. Fair enough. But does it not beho(o)ve us to explore the consequences of a lack of free will? Then we can adjust our attitudes accordingly.jonsjourney wrote: This really, it seems to me, is a philosophical question, which in many ways precludes a right or wrong answer. Is life simply biology or something more? In terms of human consciousness (or in more ancient times the idea of a soul) the proponents of any view have precious little solid ground to stand on. It feels like their is a ghost in the machine, but it looks like chemistry. I think that for me, in the end, it is a better proposition to think in terms that it is possible that man has evolved to a place in which his actions can transcend what is natural, then to rule it out based on the idea that if man comes from nature, all resultant actions are derived likewise.
If we end end up considering the absence of free will, then the self disappears logically in an instant. this seems in accord with say Buddhist interpretations of reality? I'm woefully uneducated on this aspect.
For what it's worth Jon, I think you are asking the right sort of questions. Now our answers may differ, so be it. bot I'm having fun.jonsjourney wrote: We can still walk side by side and have the discussion, right? I can come from a particular view and you can come from a particular view. A nice scenario involves a mutual consideration of each others views and the potential to learn something new. "I do not know, so lets explore it..." is still one of my favorite answers!