The Art of Discourse II

Do you have a conversation topic that doesn't seem to fit any of the other conversations? Here is where we discuss ANYTHING about Joseph Campbell, comparative mythology, and more!

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Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:52 pm

Just making conversation, James. There's no need to edit. :)

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by JamesN. » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:47 pm

Hey Cindy;

( I'm just partying down on an old thread trying to get some links to connect from different sources and finally decided to take a break before I got frustated when I saw your post. )

Perhaps I'm being picayunish but maybe some insight and advice might be of use here concerning precision in posting technique. ( Like in these type of situations for instance. :P ) I have seen ruffles in conversation before because of misinterpretation; misunderstanding; language barriers; and so on. Sooooo; in light of this example that just happened; is there anything that would be; as a general rule of thumb; advised on this? :? ( Not just from a accuracy standpoint; but also in flexability of asumption that the others involved understand your point. ) :wink:

( Incidently; I assume they may not so I probably overcompensate in explanation. And then maybe on second thought this question is not really relative. :lol: )

Thougthts? :)
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Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:32 pm

Well, James, first I want to suggest that we not necessarily overthink these things about our communications on the board. Hopefully we can be ourselves and genuinely express ourselves without undue worry about stepping on another poster's virtual toes or inviting criticism. In a nutshell and as I mentioned before, "respect and politeness" sums it up, and this whether online or off. :)

Also again, the JCF guidelines (not stone tablets of code dictated from on high) to encourage those conversations of a higher order are indications of what the organization would hope to see among posters as a means to encourage and to promote discourse that brings people together and generates a sense of community and goodwill as we share and learn more about each other and Campbell's works. (This is my take, by the way. It's not as if anyone came to me and said, "Cindy, this is what our guidelines mean and are all about." :lol: ) And indeed, whom among us would not prefer to be part of such a community as compared to the many online sites that too often generate and tolerate animosity among its members? If I wanted more of that, I'd simply walk out my front door, and chances are good that I'd find myself eventually involved in just a conversation. (Then I'd remove myself with a polite Adios, and leave the others to it if that sort of thing floats their boats...)

At the same time, my personal rule of thumb has always been, It's not what one says but how one says it, and to always keep in mind The Golden Rule as well. Besides, a community of clones and kumbaya certainly sounds boring to me and not particularly stimulating. :wink: So if you want to make certain that your words are not interpretted in the wrong way or as undue crticism, simply do as you naturally do, James, and clarify your intent up front if you feel it necessary, what is always appreciated, I think. On the other hand, however, human beings being who we are, at times we do let our shadows get the better of us and perhaps treat another with insensitivity or disrespect. An apology in this case is always appreciated and welcomed if on the receiving end, then hopefully we can move on and be more considerate in the future. Yet if a pattern of such insensitivity or rudeness seems to be developing and one finds him/herself on the receiving end, I, anyway, see nothing wrong with making my feelings about that respectfully known, and good sense at such times should dictate whether to address that with the other poster on the board or in a PM; if not sure, take it to a PM. We should keep in mind, though, that the JCF guidelines apply to PMs as well, so if one has problems with a particular poster behind the scenes, please do let Clemsy or me know.

And in conclusion from the Forum Guidelines:
We thank you for the time you've taken to enhance your understanding of the quality of culture we are trying to develop here in our community.

With Warmest Regards,

The Joseph Campbell Foundation
:mrgreen:

Ciao, amico!
Last edited by Cindy B. on Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by Neoplato » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:54 pm

Ok then....why are generalized "pokes" allowed? Every so often we get a post that reads something like:

"There are certain people on this website who are not welcome because their comments obviously don't reflect a 'conversation of a higher order'"

I find these comments rather annoying.
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Post by Cindy B. » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:04 pm

"Allowed?"

Well--and I mean no disrespect to anyone nor am I speaking in other than general terms--are we not all adults here? Can we not first take responsibility for our own reactions to a poster's insensitive comments and first address them for ourselves? A moderator should only have to step in when negativity on the board goes beyond the established threshold of intolerability, and fortuntely that rarely happens here. :) At least not that I've seen since I returned to the board full-time a few years ago.

Cindy
Last edited by Cindy B. on Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by JamesN. » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:51 pm

Cindy and Neo;

This is really helpful to me and may possibly be to others. Why? Because it addresses nebulous and somewhat unpredictable occurrences that are not always covered by assumed protocal and at least provides some insight in reading; interpreting, and responding so as to get what I would define as a feeling for the geography if you will. Granted that many of these issues are covered in the guidelines; ( but not always ). Sooo; I think by just this kind of discussion in sharpening of the focus others reading this ( later ) may realize how to apply this sensibility.

( To me at least ); this is Very Cool. 8) Thank you both. :idea:

And futhermore; the dialogue is what makes it clarify even better. :wink: :lol:
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Post by Cindy B. » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:33 pm

First turn on background music video then read on. :P


It's simple, really, James, whether on the board or off: Treat others as we'd like to be treated. Be the change that you want to see in the world (Gandhi), so begin with oneself. Imagine that...


:)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by JamesN. » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:39 pm

Cindy that was truely beautiful. 8)

You and I were talking about syncronicity the other day. I have been watching the Little League World Series this afternoon. There is a small town just outside Nashville called Goodlettsville that is playing Japan for the championship. And all during the game and on breaks and in between have been these wonderful displays and examples of sportsmanship and clips of kids from different countries sharing their love of baseball. They have no problem communicating; they just find a creative way to do it like with their smart phone and an application for language interpretation. They share their secrets and tips for better performance; they ( high five ) each other on the opposing teams for a ( good job well done ); you know; the kind of thing grownups should be doing. Young boys 12 or 13 years of age on the threshold of a life passage into manhood; just being kids with all that excitement learning about the world opening up before them.

Your post came; I turned off the sound; and as John Lennon's " Imagine " played behind me I was transfixed in a wonder of the moment as these faces paraded before me. ( And then a pitch was hit over the wall. A mad scramble went for it like sharks in a feeding frensy. It was the parents. :shock: )

Still what lingered was that thought; in all it's " Power of Hope " :!: A thought that comes to mind; " Lean toward the Light ". Why? " The beauty in eyes of those kids faces " :idea:

Thats the North Star to navigate by. :D Thanks for the inspiration.
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne
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Post by Cindy B. » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:13 pm

From the mouths of babes... :)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by Neoplato » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:28 pm

A moderator should only have to step in when negativity on the board goes beyond the established threshold of intolerability, and fortuntely that rarely happens here.-Cindy
Yes, these pokes are not a common occurrence. And yes this is a particular sore spot with me (and no I'm not an adult). And intolerability is subjective.

However, when associates imply "people aren't good enough to post here" I would think this would be a PR concern. :?

And unfortunately, I'm not guiltless. I have made a few comments I regret over the years. :(
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Post by Cindy B. » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:21 pm

Please provide me with links to posts, Neoplato, that "imply 'people aren't good enough to post here'" so I can have a look. Send them via PM, of course, then we'll decide what should be done about it. Okay?

Cindy


P.S. And in general and for all of us, whenever something a poster says, whether to us specifically or to another on the board, hits "a sore spot," that's a clear indication that shadow material has been activated and projection is in play. So honest self-reflection is the way to go at first, and those usually consciously disavowed dragon flames licking our feet from the personal unconscious deserve a good look and consideration, and especially so before submitting a reply.. :wink:
Last edited by Cindy B. on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:02 am, edited 3 times in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by CarmelaBear » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:36 pm

Neoplato wrote:However, when associates imply "people aren't good enough to post here" I would think this would be a PR concern. :?
Hi Everyone.

We're especially fortunate that the starting point and background of our discussions, the insightful work of Joseph Campbell, sets a high bar on both tolerance of differences and a certain quality of substantive content.

Some formal training, language and social skills give a person enough self-confidence to engage in the conversations and continue when others might be less inclined to do so. Our need to be here may reflect circumstances and qualities common to those of us who spend the most time here, both reading and writing.

In addition, the question "Higher than what?" is a good one. Those who enjoy hanging around this water cooler share a feeling for this conversation that seems to be fairly well-suited to this format and general "atmosphere", (for want of a better term). By simply being ourselves, we seem to overcome the challenges we encounter.

Speaking for myself, I honestly don't know how I would have managed over the last decade without access to this particular expressive outlet. Both emotionally and intellectually, the communication is enriching and nourishing in a way that seems unique and satisfying.

This is better than chocolate candy, (and that is helping me stay on a diet).

Gratefully,

Carmela
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by jufa » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:03 am

I've found intolerance of people's visions, understanding, and partiality to collectivism agreement the most aggrieving elements in "The Art of Discourse." I've also found these elements do not begin maliciously, but on the assumptive belief everyone is on the same educational level, and should express themselves succinctly and clear.

The problem with assumption is it excludes all other levels & abilities of learning which does not reach the readers level. So the one assuming look upon the writer and the writer's style as being irresponsible to the rule of clarity in the art of discourse. They do not consider life itself is variable, and that a Cadillac could never fit into the parking space a VW can. And this lack of vision and intolerance most ofter brings forth discuss for ones lack of being able to communicate "equally." Then annoyance follows which nudges out a silent distilled anger, which prompts one to start reading the annoying writer, and now disrespectful presentation, with a more sensitive touch. A sensitive touch of reading not for any value there maybe therein, but specifically to find fault.

A fault which is spread and touch other readers, not all, spirits, and soon, the art of discourse becomes the art of condemnation.

Tarring & feathering comes in many forms in a civilized society. All, inclusive of I, have participated.

IMHObservation :)
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
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Post by CarmelaBear » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:24 am

jufa wrote:...the art of discourse becomes the art of condemnation.

Tarring & feathering comes in many forms in a civilized society. All, inclusive of I, have participated.

IMHObservation :)
Are we discussing particular instances of this, or is this hypothetical?

:?:
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Post by Cindy B. » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:28 am

Speaking for myself Jufa, if the poster's writing style is particularly unique, I sometimes have trouble understanding what the actual meaning may be that's trying to be conveyed. Often shorter sentences and more punctutation helps me in this case, particularly if the typical sentence structure is long and appears to be of the "stream of consciousness" style. Sometimes in such cases, but not always, of course, I'll not read the entire post because too many assumptions may be required to try to make sense of what the author intends. Varying educational levels has never been an issue for me, though.

Cindy :)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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