The Art of Discourse II

Do you have a conversation topic that doesn't seem to fit any of the other conversations? Here is where we discuss ANYTHING about Joseph Campbell, comparative mythology, and more!

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

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JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:27 pm

I hope that any associates or visitors who may want more understanding on Cindy's post will go to the ( " Atheists Are A Myth Thread "; page 23 ) of the " Conversation With A Thousand Faces " forum. :idea:

http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic. ... 1584#81584
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Post by Clemsy » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:12 pm

Cindy B. wrote:Earlier today I posted this as part of a discussion in another forum. To my way of thinking it bears repeating, so I'm including it here:

I am always tempted to comment on the board whenever someone speaks in terms of absolutes or from an attitude of absolute conviction that this or that is the way it is and no other, and so the other guy's ideas are misguided or just plain wrong. But I have not because I'm always at the meta-level, too, and conceiving about conceiving, so I do not judge or criticize and operate from a stance of relativism that is inclusive of all. But I just might change my ways about that one. :wink: Too often exchanges on the board that include this sort of absolutism generate misunderstanding and even hard feelings if the other person's perspective is dismissed without validation that his way, too, is a reasonable and legitimate way to be in the world. In my imaginary "best of all forum worlds" folks would typically offer, "Yes, I recognize your position, but I just happen to disagree with it, and here's why." Forum food for thought, please...

***

Mere disagreement and the exchange of ideas on the the board is not a demand nor should it be perceived as such, please, folks, that the other poster change his/her beliefs and personal convictions. Our beliefs are indeed all our own and reflective of who we are in our particular uniqueness. It's what makes us human beings so very special and interesting. :)


Cindy
I agree with Cindy 100%. As David Kudler (Who I finally met, btw, at the Symposium as is as fine a chap as I knew he would be. I've known him for 11 years!) said in the Forum Guidelines, these are conversations, not conversions.

We're here, after all, to sharpen our wits on each others ideas. At least, that's the way I've always felt about it.

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Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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And the topic is...

Post by Cindy B. » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:28 pm

Please review the following general posting guidelines so that our conversations here stay interesting, informative, and enjoyable for all. :)

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Whenever a poster creates a new thread and establishes a new topic, please recognize the area of interest that he/she has established and maintain the focus of discussion within those parameters. True, it's natural during the course of any discussion for a bit of wandering to side issues, but when the creator of the thread (or moderator) attempts to redirect the discussion back to the topic, please honor that and return to the original area of interest.

At the same time, often the creator of a new thread and topic will not mind what direction the thread takes and anything goes. Those sorts of threads can be found here, too, of course, such as those that start in NYC and end up in LA with a right turn to FL. That's fine, too, provided that the thread's creator is cool with that.

Whenever participating in a discussion initiated by someone else and you find yourself wanting to pursue further some related issue that has popped up, please create a new thread of your own and establish the new area of interest. If you'd like, leave a note and link to your new thread in the original thread so interested posters know to follow you there.

If as the original creator of a thread you find yourself having difficulty politely encouraging posters to return to your topic, please contact a moderator via PM to intervene for you.

Sometimes a moderator will request that posters refocus on the topic by moving the off-topic conversation to an already established thread on the board. At such times a link to the appropriate thread will be provided for you.

Please do not resubmit copies of a post that you want to draw especial attention to within the thread or to assure that it's the last post in the thread so that it's featured on the index page. Other posters participating in the discussion or readers following along will find your post and give it the consideration that it deserves. As part of general housekeeping, moderators will delete the extra posts.

Occasionally duplicate or triplicate posts appear on the board because of whatever quirkiness of the day is affecting SUBMIT and the submission/posting process of a new post. As part of general housekeeping, moderators will delete these extra posts, too.

Please also make sure that new threads and topics are placed in the appropriate forum. The Village Compound forum, for example, is devoted to topics of a practical nature, e.g., Q & A, rather than to continuing conversations. If unsure which forum is best suited for your new thread and topic, please post in The Conversation with a Thousand Faces forum.

***

I think that covers everything we need. Should anyone have any questions or think of something that I've forgotten, please share it here.

Happy Posting!

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by jufa » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:07 pm

I have had my share of discourses here, and I probably will have many more. What I have found to be the most misguiding force in conversations is the highs and lows a mind has traveled or not traveled. And the continuity of relativism, yet the subtlety of different thought expression which seem the same but are not.

Commonality, one would think, is the platform of establishment for all in expressing themselves. Commonality is and is not so easy to accomplish because of the angles of perception. So, then, relativism is always a cross-road which depends upon knowledge and wisdom of those highs and lows dependent upon ones education/lack, varieties/lack of different ways the culture of those who read and write have experienced in the cultural habits of people within the culture.

Then, I have found, some enter into conversation for the sake of just down right proving some one else is wrong when such is impossible. And we all have seen what this does to a conversation. Defenses arrive, subtle punches are thrown, and sides are taken depending on likeability, which sometime include the moderators.

Fairness is hard to achieve because rules will not be adhered to -ready for this? Absolutely-. So what is the solution? There is no solution. We just have to be tolerance of intolerance & vice verses, but always be respectful to ideas and people.

It is the lack of respect I find to be the rascal in most conversations.
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
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Post by Clemsy » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:48 pm

Hi Jufa,

Yes. What you say is quite true, when it occurs. Personally, I don't think it occurs that often. As long as associates share their points of view, all is well. Sharing is mostly what goes on here.

But there can be a subtle difference between sharing and being dogmatic. Once again, it's very much how our writing is interpreted by one another. That interpretation could be very inaccurate, which is why one should question before accepting one's own assumption..

Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by CarmelaBear » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:21 pm

So much is about perception and getting used to the medium. Posters brings their own frames of reference.

This is much easier than it used to be. We've weathered a few small bumps along the path to a conversation that serves both writers and readers.

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Post by zoe » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:23 pm

It is the lack of respect I find to be the rascal in most conversations.
One of the things that sometimes seems to occur is that people see comments that challenge or threaten beliefs or assumptions and respond too rapidly. A reaction that is immediate and without due consideration of context can come across poorly.
The arrow belongs not to the archer once it has left the bow; the word no longer belongs to the speaker when it has once passed his lips - Heinrich Heine
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Post by Clemsy » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:40 pm

One of the things that sometimes seems to occur is that people see comments that challenge or threaten beliefs or assumptions and respond too rapidly. A reaction that is immediate and without due consideration of context can come across poorly. ~Zoe
Well said.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by CarmelaBear » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:31 pm

The arrow belongs not to the archer once it has left the bow; the word no longer belongs to the speaker when it has once passed his lips - Heinrich Heine
Depends on what target it hits, and whether it draws blood.

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Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by JamesN. » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:00 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These quotes were taken from a discussion in the " What do you understand by Transcendence "? thread in the " Conversation of a Thousand Faces " forum from Jonsjourney; and SteveC.

Steve said:
Not surprisingly, we disagree Nandu. Yet, I learn so much from you.
Jonsjourney said:
I believe it was Will Rogers who once said something like, "I do not like that guy over there. I need to get to know him better."

This is something that we can easily lose sight of when we are trying to be right
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne
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Post by CarmelaBear » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:30 am

Like and right are so different.

One can be right and be disliked. One can be wrong and liked.

One can be so liked and not believed for one minute.

Respect is key, I think.

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Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by jufa » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:29 pm

When dealing with the human perspective, that which men speak upon is always subjective because of the objectivity of personal bias of that which has been indoctrinated into the human minds by the prattling interpreters of idealism.

All idealism is the extension of the 'sentient Id,' whose child is the human Ego. - jufa
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
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definition of myth

Post by Blueshenb » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:28 pm

CarmelaBear wrote:Guidelines.

Many definitions of myth, but this one is very godd, of course. To accidentally see how a myth is working in society - without anyone telling - or a direct experience if fortunate is the most satisfying way of "understanding" myth or mythology.

good.

Helpful.

8)
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Post by CarmelaBear » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:57 pm

:?
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by Ercan2121 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:26 am

CarmelaBear wrote:Like and right are so different.

One can be right and be disliked. One can be wrong and liked.

~
Both is difficult :D
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