On Consideration of the New Year

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JamesN.
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On Consideration of the New Year

Post by JamesN. » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:09 pm

As that time of year when media Memoriams and retrospects of news events clog the airwaves if you have thoughts perhaps you would like to share them.

As the New Year turns reflections for me ruminate around Global Climate and weather events as well as geological catastrophies for One. Are these types of things a sign of future adjustments for world populations to consider for their continued evolution. I think so.

For Two; Is the Arab Spring, North Korea change of leadership; China's emergence as a global superpower; Africa's continued instability; Europe's Euro crisis; Islamic Extremism terrorists and other such matters of human evolution and conflict a major concern. Also I think yes.

But on the Eve of a New Year let us also pause to think of NASA's 2 " GRAIL " probes poised to circle the moon tonight as a metaphor of hope for the Human Spirits ever evolving " desire to know ". A representative of what is good in mankind. And even though this old world shrugs, shutters, and groans from the continued abuse from these self-absorbed puny little creatures who think the universe is all about them; it may be good to remember that we are all part and parcel of this miracle of life in all of it's many manifestations.

As the chime of the New Year begins I wish for myself the ability to be Open to Change instead of trying to Hold On to my old ways of thinking. To be grateful for the companionship and comeradere' of my Fellow Campellians who have taught me; pushed me; stretched me; and most importantly lead me in my growth of understanding of what it means be a better human being. To you all I wish these same good thoughts with the best of intentions.

As Joeseph Campbell said once concerning his thoughts if this was the threshold of the best time of human history he replied: " The Best Ever ".

Happy New Year Everyone ! :D
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne
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Post by jonsjourney » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:11 pm

Happy New Year!
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams
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Post by Andreas » Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:03 pm

James I know you mean well but I don't fully agree with what you say in your post (sorry), perhaps we can open another thread and discuss the "desire to know" and "what is good in mankind".

However whatever our little differences may be I do feel grateful for being here with all of you.

Happy new year everyone!
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki
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Post by Clemsy » Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:24 pm

Happy New Year one and all!

Andreas, I'm going to balance your post with, "Well said, James!"

Let go of last year, open up to this year and there's always, always, hope.

8)
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by JamesN. » Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:36 pm

Andreas that is perfectly alright. I might also add I sometimes struggle with clarity a little bit and can certainly become absorbed in my own thoughts or in my enthusiasum of a particular moment. Thank you for your considerate reply. I have always enjoyed what you say very much and I wish nothing but the best of a New Year. :)
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Post by Andreas » Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:47 pm

Balance is good, hope is good also, Clemsy, I am not sure though if we can find them in space or with NASA for that matter. ;)

James, thanks for your kind words. I hope to find some time and post some more. Have a great one everyone.
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Post by JamesN. » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:53 am

In the last few hours of New Years Day 2012 I would like to add an addendum concerning a particular concept that has come up and that has been of tremendous importance in my life. I could probably say it not only saved my life but has been in many ways one of guiding lights of my life. that is the " Desire to Know " .

Now before this starts off being misinterpreted and sounding like some sort of self-virtuous or pieous defence of my earlier statements; I would like to clarify I hope in a more accurate way what I meant.

The original overall intent of my overview was meant as an assimulative and metaphorical reflection. It was not meant as a concretized statement of what the world was or should be. And to add further that it was not meant as an implication that the current technologies now employed are going to take us to any panacea like state of perceived nirvana. That said let there be no doubt I emphatically did mean in the strongest possible terms and in the most respectful way that the concept of " Man's Desire To Know " represents to me one of the highest ideals and one of the most redeeming elements of the collective human species.

This concept is what led me to Joseph Campbell and is directly tied to events in my life that I am only now finally beginning to understand. ( These things that I share are in application only to myself in my personal journey to myself and not in any way implied towards anyone else. )

Robert Walters said in one of his more recent video excepts that we as a species are hardwired for personal narrative and Clemsy has also referred to this in a recent post. I feel this is very true. Also it is something I think modern culture distorts and makes difficult to access as a proper and nessecary experience of life. It is one of the things that helps extract and give us the meaning which we are seeking. ( Stay with me here. )

Much of Campbells' work has Jungian ties and elements running through it as many other members are actively aware and engaged in. ( I will leave exploration of the deeper aspects to others on other threads. ) But as to this particular issue of personal narrative and the connection to the Desire To Know concept I would like to share a personal experience that was kind of a Tat tvam asi moment; ( thou art that for those who are not familiar with the term ); and it's influence.

There came a time in my youth; ( which I have explained in much greater detail on the " Psychiatric Hospital Thread " on the " Awakening The Mythological Mind " forum ); when I came to a crisis of a life-altering decision.

One of the things that shaped my choice was a movie I saw taken from a very important play called " Inherit The Wind ". It was a play about the " Scopes Monkey Trial " which had to do with the teaching of Darwin's: " Theory Of Evolution ". ( To me this is as important as any event in human history; but that is a discussion for another day. ) And in this play many of the themes of the common held assumptions about blind acceptance of religion versus the integrity of the power of the intellect are exploded.

I will quote a few lines to illustrate my point: ( In a highly charged religious environment; on questioning the defence lawyer Clarence Darrow he is asked if there is anything he holds sacred to which he replies: " Yes, the individual human mind. In a child's power to master the multiplication table, there is more sanctity than in all your shouted Amens and Holy Holies and Hosannes. An Idea is a greater monument than a Cathedral. and the Advance of Man's Knowledge is a greater miracle than all the sticks turned to snakes or parting of the waters. That to me represents " Desire To Know ".

This moment to me shaped and set the course of my life. The seed had been deeply planted and the fruit it bore brought me here. I am at a point now in my life where the things I have done and the experiences I have had are turned inward for my own clarification and assimilation. They are not towards outward conversion but exchanged with others for assimulative understanding as I travel towards whatever destinations my fates lead me. So I gently state that if in my shared reflections and mixtures of personal narrative we may not necessarily converge that our journeys may have different arrivals and that I most certainly wish you well on yours.

www.imdb.com/title/tt0053946/quotes For those who are interested.

Pleasent journeys to all in the coming year. :D
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Post by Andreas » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:30 am

The original overall intent of my overview was meant as an assimulative and metaphorical reflection. It was not meant as a concretized statement of what the world was or should be. And to add further that it was not meant as an implication that the current technologies now employed are going to take us to any panacea like state of perceived nirvana. That said let there be no doubt I emphatically did mean in the strongest possible terms and in the most respectful way that the concept of " Man's Desire To Know " represents to me one of the highest ideals and one of the most redeeming elements of the collective human species. - James
I understand that James. My post was not meant to be personal, it is just that you brought up an concept that does shapes our collective direction and I see it coming up a lot lately. And even though you mean well, holding an ideal is like stating how the world should be, I think. Also I never thought you tried to converge anyone with your post. It just is.

However... to me the "desire to know" could also mean "fear of the unknown" and maybe even worst "fear of not having enough", which could be the case for all our wars and competition.

I am playing a bit of devil's advocate here since I also feel awe and amazement when I look at space travel or a space shuttle launch or Man's drive to understand and my own drive to understand those who try to understand. However I would still like the world to remain still for a while and concentrate on the problems we have on earth instead of spending billions of dollars trying to understand the molecular structure of a martian rock. :P

Anyway, hope my own personal experience is not perceived as an attack to you or to anyone ideals. Pleasant journey to you too, James. :)
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki
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Post by jonsjourney » Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:20 pm

Andreas...nice to you see you lurking about!

James...extremely well stated post...it truly captures the spirit of this website, and I believe the spirit of Joe's work.

I have spent more than my fair share of words here being rather critical of science and technology. Not so much out of a lack of integration of such ideas, but as a matter of parity, which I believe is essential to trying to reign in ideas run amuck. Anyway, I happened across this quote today and I think it expresses my thoughts on the subject...
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
-Isaac Asimov
Here's to 2012...only 100 years away from...2112...
"I lie awake, staring out at the bleakness of Megadon. City and sky become one, merging
Into a single plane, a vast sea of unbroken grey. The Twin Moons, just two pale orbs as
They trace their way across the steely sky. I used to think I had a pretty good life here,
Just plugging into my machine for the day, then watching Templevision or reading a Temple
Paper in the evening.

'My friend Jon always said it was nicer here than under the atmospheric domes of the Outer
Planets. We have had peace since 2062, when the surviving planets were banded together under
The Red Star of the Solar Federation. The less fortunate gave us a few new moons.
I believed what I was told. I thought it was a good life, I thought I was happy. Then I found
Something that changed it all...'


[I. Overture]

And the meek shall inherit the earth...

[II. Temples of Syrinx]

...'The massive grey walls of the Temples rise from the heart of every Federation city. I
Have always been awed by them, to think that every single facet of every life is regulated
And directed from within! Our books, our music, our work and play are all looked after by
The benevolent wisdom of the priests...'


We've taken care of everything
The words you hear, the songs you sing
The pictures that give pleasure to your eyes
It's one for all and all for one
We work together, common sons
Never need to wonder how or why

We are the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Our great computers fill the hallowed halls
We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx
All the gifts of life are held within our walls

Look around at this world we've made
Equality our stock in trade
Come and join the Brotherhood of Man
Oh, what a nice, contented world
Let the banners be unfurled
Hold the Red Star proudly high in hand

We are the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Our great computers fill the hallowed halls
We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx
All the gifts of life are held within our walls

[III. Discovery]

'... Behind my beloved waterfall, in the little room that was hidden beneath the cave, I
Found it. I brushed away the dust of the years, and picked it up, holding it reverently in
My hands. I had no idea what it might be, but it was beautiful...'

'... I learned to lay my fingers across the wires, and to turn the keys to make them sound
Differently. As I struck the wires with my other hand, I produced my first harmonious sounds
And soon my own music! How different it could be from the music of the Temples! I can't wait
To tell the priests about it!...'


What can this strange device be?
When I touch it, it gives forth a sound
It's got wires that vibrate and give music
What can this thing be that I found?

See how it sings like a sad heart
And joyously screams out it's pain
Sounds that build high like a mountain
Or notes that fall gently like rain

I can't wait to share this new wonder
The people will all see it's light
Let them all make their own music
The Priests praise my name on this night

[IV. Presentation]

'... In the sudden silence as I finished playing, I looked up to a circle of grim,
Expressionless faces. Father Brown rose to his feet, and his somnolent voice echoed
Throughout the silent Temple Hall...'
'... Instead of the grateful joy that I expected, they were words of quiet rejection!
Instead of praise, sullen dismissal. I watched in shock and horror as Father Brown ground
My precious instrument to splinters beneath his feet...'


I know it's most unusual
To come before you so
But I've found an ancient miracle
I thought that you should know
Listen to my music
And hear what it can do
There's something here as strong as life
I know that it will reach you

Yes, we know, it's nothing new
It's just a waste of time
We have no need for ancient ways
The world is doing fine
Another toy will help destroy
The elder race of man
Forget about your silly whim
It doesn't fit the plan

I can't believe you're saying
These things just can't be true
Our world could use this beauty
Just think what we might do
Listen to my music
And hear what it can do
There's something here as strong as life
I know that it will reach you

Don't annoy us further!
We have our work to do
Just think about the average
What use have they for you?
Another toy will help destroy
The elder race of man
Forget about your silly whim
It doesn't fit the Plan!

[V. Oracle: The Dream]

'... I guess it was a dream, but even now it all seems so vivid to me. Clearly yet I see
The beckoning hand of the oracle as he stood at the summit of the staircase...'

'... I see still the incredible beauty of the sculptured cities and the pure spirit of man
Revealed in the lives and works of this world. I was overwhelmed by both wonder and
Understanding as I saw a completely different way to life, a way that had been crushed
By the Federation long ago. I saw now how meaningless life had become with the loss of
All these things...'


I wandered home though the silent streets
And fell into a fitful sleep
Escape to realms beyond the night
Dream can't you show me the light?

I stand atop a spiral stair
An oracle confronts me there
He leads me on light years away
Through astral nights, galactic days
I see the works of gifted hands
That grace this strange and wondrous land
I see the hand of man arise
With hungry mind and open eyes

They left the planet long ago
The elder race still learn and grow
Their power grows with purpose strong
To claim the home where they belong
Home to tear the Temples down...
Home to change!

[VI. Soliloquy]

'... I have not left this cave for days now, it has become my last refuge in my total
Despair. I have only the music of the waterfall to comfort me now. I can no longer live
Under the control of the Federation, but there is no other place to go. My last hope is
That with my death I may pass into the world of my dream, and know peace at last.'


The sleep is still in my eyes
The dream is still in my head
I heave a sigh and sadly smile
And lie a while in bed
I wish that it might come to pass
Not fade like all my dreams...

Just think of what my life might be
In a world like I have seen!
I don't think I can carry on
Carry on this cold and empty life

My spirits are low in the depths of despair
My lifeblood...
... Spills over...

[VII. The Grand Finale]

Attention all Planets of the Solar Federation
Attention all Planets of the Solar Federation
Attention all Planets of the Solar Federation
We have assumed control
We have assumed control
We have assumed control
That lyric version includes the written components found in the liner notes from the CD or Album version...which goes to the extent Neil Peart valued the power of a narrative. I also note Peart's understanding of mythology and the tension between the old world and the new. I think it is pretty rare to find a song that has lyrics both within and outside of the song. I made the parts that are not within the song bold for those who have not heard it before... Pretty cool, methinks... 8)

Sorry for the length, but one only has so many opportunities to line up ideas from one century into the next one! :wink:
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams
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Post by JamesN. » Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:15 pm

Andreas; Your kind and sensitive response is greatly appreciated. And if I may I would like to pose a metaphoric calibration with the points lined up to kind of refocus the lense we are viewing the issue with.

In compass navigation there is a process called declination adjustment which has to do with tweaking the intruments reading of where it interprets North is. Because the Earth has; shall we say rough territory; the device's accuracy may need occasional help in refining it's ability to accomplish it's function. And if you are charting a course; whether with or without a map; this can be critical to getting to the desired destination; or getting lost.

Our sense of North that we use to steer by is directed by our internal navigational instincts. ( This is scientifically proven Hardwired DNA - Darwin's: Theory of Evolution ) Joseph Campbell's: Hero's Journey as a metaphor is an arctypical example of the process of a person's navigation through the roadmap of the various life stages and the realizations that are achieved. The achievement of the metamorphisis; as it were; from the catapillar to the butterfly comes from the consciousness-raising understanding that is obtained in the overcoming of the Fear of the Unknown driven by the Desire to Know in the Understanding of One's Life.

In a larger more Global sense throughout history the model represented is a reflection of mindkind's struggle to not only survive but understand his place in it and the meaning of which he is a part. Campbell saw this; ( The Monomyth ); but also the inflective as well as reflective dynamics of the mechanisms involved; ( Jungian Psychology as one example ). Eastern and Western perspectives withstanding; he also pointed to the synthesis he understood as combined with Science as part of and not in conflict with the metaphysical or spiritual dimension and realization of and acceptance of life as it is.

Your points about nurturing the wounds of our world are Profoundly important in this new horizon we face. So much so that our very survival and our planets' future may ultimately depend on it. But in the Total Picture this component is a part of a much larger portrait or canvas; and not seperate from the ultimate struggle to evolve in which the human species has always been engaged.

Your issues raised about " Point of View " interpretation of intent are well taken as reference to the larger topic of forum protocol and evolvement. It has become with good reason one of the major concerns of balancing the need for understanding; respect; expression; and the Alchemical Process through with this achieved in the forum format. ( Concern for this may very well be one of our most important attributes in the coming times ahead. Watch the News as an example of why this condition is so importance reguarding negative environment. ) This place and it's care is Important to so many in so many ways. And it's Care is Stewarted by everyone.

I hope that there is interest in the referenced link to the play's dialogue for there is much illumination and insight concerning these particular topics. Especially the sponges right to think and the march backward in time; much less the other brilliant and piercing legal repartee between counsel; judge; and journalist concerning free-thought and it's implications. And if it's relavence is questionable consider the Intelligent-design and Education Debate taking place; much less other global Religious conflicts across the planet.

Your patience; consideration; and tolerance on this topic are again deeply appreciated; and if in my tone or demeaner there are any inflections that do not meet with your approval please accept my most sincere and humble apologies. :)

Jon you constantly lead and inspire me with your eloquence and deeply profound considered insights of which I am constantly learning from. As usual I had not seen this and as you so sagaciously pointed out a true carpe dieum moment. :wink:

My best to all :D 8)
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Post by Andreas » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:15 am

James, I know it is going to sound cliche but it was never about the destination, it is all about the Journey, it is about the rupture of being alive, and that is what I get from Campbell.

And meaning is just another evolutionary trick to helps us quell the ignorance. Didn't Campbell offered the story with the flower. What is the meaning of it? Why it exists? It doesn't matter and I bet that there must be as many interpretations of it as there are people in the world. From that point of view Darwin's theory is just another metaphor in our struggle to understand, I think. Now it seems like the truth but who knows what we will discover in 100 years.

My guess is that it doesn't matter be it space or the abyss, the answer, the solution, lies within us (like so many people pointed to me in this forum) however we do try to assign meaning to things regardless. We do have a destination in our collective mind. Like you said everything is related. My only objection (if I can do that) would be that by looking too much out there we tend to dismiss the inward and we also dismiss what is happening down here where it actually matters.
I hope that there is interest in the referenced link to the play's dialogue for there is much illumination and insight concerning these particular topics. - J
Yes! Ofcourse I will search for the play you mentioned. Thanks for that.
Your patience; consideration; and tolerance on this topic are again deeply appreciated; and if in my tone or demeaner there are any inflections that do not meet with your approval please accept my most sincere and humble apologies. - J
Me? patient? That makes me laugh! :D

And James no worries this is not about approval. Just a conversation and maybe we can both gain something like better understanding. ;)
Andreas...nice to see you lurking about! - Jons
Like a predator! :lol: :lol:

Hellooo!
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki
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Post by Cindy B. » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:36 am

Andreas wrote:
Jon wrote:Andreas...nice to see you lurking about! - Jons
Like a predator! :lol: :lol:

Hellooo!
Your diligent work, Andreas, on shadow integration is bearing fruit, I see... :P

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by Andreas » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:08 am

Cindy B. wrote:
Andreas wrote:
Jon wrote:Andreas...nice to see you lurking about! - Jons
Like a predator! :lol: :lol:

Hellooo!
Your diligent work, Andreas, on shadow integration is bearing fruit, I see... :P

Cindy
Thanks, Cindy. I had good mentoring. :)
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki
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Post by Cindy B. » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:48 pm

Andreas, I was trying to joke with you. Badly as it turns out. :lol:

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by Andreas » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:02 pm

Whoops...lol, I thought you might but then I dismissed it. Seriously though, I hope I am not too harsh with anyone but there are some things happening I just can't deal with. Stuff like war and poverty. And when I see where we (as mankind) focus our energies, I just have to speak. Anyway apologizes if I have offended anyone. I'll stop now and read the paper Jons posted on the postmodern thread.

:oops:
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki
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