Consciousness

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Post by Roncooper » Thu May 09, 2013 3:59 am

I have been going through a few bad days and I think I am starting to see the advantage of believing that life has no purpose and that meaning is an illusion. I don't have to care anymore.

I don't have to try. It is all random so someone else will. This is the communist view. The individual is not important. This is very comforting. I like it.

Now if I can only convince my heart.

Ron
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Post by romansh » Thu May 09, 2013 4:03 am

Roncooper wrote:I have been going through a few bad days and I think I am starting to see the advantage of believing that life has no purpose and that meaning is an illusion. I don't have to care anymore.

I don't have to try. It is all random so someone else will. This is the communist view. The individual is not important. This is very comforting. I like it.

Now if I can only convince my heart.

Ron
Ahh if we can't have dualism then will flip over to nihilism.

Missing the middle ground.
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Post by Cindy B. » Thu May 09, 2013 4:34 am

I'm confused, guys. Perhaps we need a new thread...? Thanks.

:)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by romansh » Thu May 09, 2013 12:57 pm

Cindy B. wrote:I'm confused, guys. Perhaps we need a new thread...? Thanks.

:)
I don't think so Cindy
How we view affect our consciousness affects our world views and vice versa.

For example a belief in free will will give our consciousness certain properties and vice versa.

All threads are connected Cindy. ;)
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Post by Roncooper » Thu May 09, 2013 3:26 pm

Rom,

In my moment of weakness I flipped from panentheism to modern scientific atheism. Panentheism is considered monistic, for want of a label.

I enjoyed your link from scientific atheism to nihilism. I hadn't thought to make that connection. I couldn't get past how depressing it was.

I agree with your assessment that this discussion is still on thread. My panentheism comes from my conscious experience. If my life had been different I would probably be an agnostic. Which, in my view, is the most intellectually honest position.

A person's definition of consciousness depends on their data set, which is subjective, unfortunately.


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Post by Clemsy » Thu May 09, 2013 9:03 pm

Well gents, the way we tend to run things around here is to allow whoever started the thread to determine what's on or off topic. So Cindy can make that decision unless you can argue the point to her satisfaction..

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Post by Roncooper » Thu May 09, 2013 9:31 pm

I'm pretty sure we are back on track.

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Post by Cindy B. » Thu May 09, 2013 11:21 pm

For my part, folks, I decided to give it some time and see where things lead. So long as there's a clear link to "consciousness" as commonly addressed thus far in this thread, I'm cool.

:)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Post by Ercan2121 » Fri May 10, 2013 6:17 pm

:)
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Post by romansh » Fri May 10, 2013 9:24 pm

Roncooper wrote: Rom,
In my moment of weakness I flipped from panentheism to modern scientific atheism. Panentheism is considered monistic, for want of a label.
Not by me it isn't. It is about as monistic as AL's chi ;)
God in everything as opposed to everything being god - huge difference in mind. For me panentheism is dualism light (as opposed the extra tar stuff classical theism inhales).
Roncooper wrote: I enjoyed your link from scientific atheism to nihilism. I hadn't thought to make that connection. I couldn't get past how depressing it was.
I don't think I mentioned atheism of any kind in this context Ron.
Roncooper wrote: I agree with your assessment that this discussion is still on thread. My panentheism comes from my conscious experience. If my life had been different I would probably be an agnostic. Which, in my view, is the most intellectually honest position.
Here we enter a Chopra like view of consciousness - matter/energy is conscious, hence the universe is conscious. My view of this is, if Andreas is right, rocks and mountains are not conscious, then it is worth a good second look to see if we are conscious and what exactly do we mean by consciousness.
Roncooper wrote: A person's definition of consciousness depends on their data set, which is subjective, unfortunately.
Ron
No our interpretation of that data set is subjective, the data set is simply the universe unfolding.
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Post by romansh » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:59 pm

There have been some musings around consciousness recently.

I can't help thinking what it is an amalgamation of the last 3 seconds "chemical" activity of the brain and beyond. And what we perceive is called consciousness. I would agree this does not quite explain consciousness itself.

Of course we have memories that stretch back years, but when we access them it is in the "now" which according to research psychologists stretches back as far as 3 seconds. Certain actions like catching a ball, the now is very much tighter around 100 ms.
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Post by Roncooper » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:14 am

Rom's post raised a question for me. One that I would like to ask any psychologists reading this.

I will lay some groundwork and then ask the question.

Jung defined four functions of the psyche. These are intellect, intuition, sensuality, and emotion. To this I add willfulness. He also said that a person is dominant in one of these functions. For example a person may be predominantly emotional or intellectual.

It seems to me that people of one function put down or minimize the others and in doing so, they put down the people that have a different function.

My question for the experts is: Is this recognized behavior? Is this accepted as a typical social problem?

Rom's example of the intellect devaluing the intuition is a typical response in my opinion, and it goes both ways. Zen Buddhism is designed to help people get beyond the intellect, which is a hindrance.

Intellectuals and willful individuals put down the emotional individuals. Emotional individuals can't be bothered with intellectual jibber jabber.

The intuitive paths like Buddhism and Adviata Hinduism warn against sensual pleasures, and our traditional willful (patriarchal) society condemns sensuality as a sin.

This behavior isn't ethnocentric, it is functioncentric.

So the question. Is this understood as typical behavior?
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Post by romansh » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:18 pm

Roncooper wrote: Intellectuals and willful individuals put down the emotional individuals. Emotional individuals can't be bothered with intellectual jibber jabber.
I don't think I devalue emotion, I just don't put it on pedestal. Emotions can be dark or light (looking at it dualistically).

Regarding intuition ... according to my MB assessments (INTP), I am very comfortable with my intuition. Having said that I do check what my intuition tells me by using my intellect to reconcile my intuition with reality.
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Post by JamesN. » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:15 pm

Roncooper wrote:Rom's post raised a question for me. One that I would like to ask any psychologists reading this.

I will lay some groundwork and then ask the question.

Jung defined four functions of the psyche. These are intellect, intuition, sensuality, and emotion. To this I add willfulness. He also said that a person is dominant in one of these functions. For example a person may be predominantly emotional or intellectual.

It seems to me that people of one function put down or minimize the others and in doing so, they put down the people that have a different function.

My question for the experts is: Is this recognized behavior? Is this accepted as a typical social problem?

Rom's example of the intellect devaluing the intuition is a typical response in my opinion, and it goes both ways. Zen Buddhism is designed to help people get beyond the intellect, which is a hindrance.

Intellectuals and willful individuals put down the emotional individuals. Emotional individuals can't be bothered with intellectual jibber jabber.

The intuitive paths like Buddhism and Adviata Hinduism warn against sensual pleasures, and our traditional willful (patriarchal) society condemns sensuality as a sin.

This behavior isn't ethnocentric, it is functioncentric.

So the question. Is this understood as typical behavior?


Ron. When Cindy started this thread some 40 pages back there were various links to examples in the "Weeds" thread she accessed within these particular discussions to add a certain "clarity" she felt was needed. On (page 17) of this specific thread there is one such link to the post listed below which may or may not address your query regarding the four functions; (to which is added) the "extraversion/introversion" attitudes of orientation categories under which the various combinations of the "8" variations are interpreted and arranged. The difference between extraverted and introverted orientations (and) the "8" variations are critical in understanding individual behavior patterns; and without their inclusion within the "4 functions of the psyche"; the classification as you will see is incomplete. I don't know whether this addition will address your question; but she felt this component was vital in understanding the psychological mechanism which Jung emphasized. Perhaps you meant to include this aspect as an "already understood component" of your reference. But since these additional aspects were not mentioned I thought it might be helpful to add these to the clarification of the "4 functions" of hers as well.


Hi, all.

To start, for any who have not studied Jung’s own work with regard to psychological types, I have a suggestion and a favor to ask—for now please set aside whatever you’ve learned from derivative typologies such as those of Myers-Briggs, Keirsey, Socionics, etc. These psychometric systems are not Jungian in the pure sense in terms of both content and process, and it's also my intention to introduce you Jungian typology basics in the spirit that Jung intended, that is, as a means of self-exploration. Perhaps this exercise will even enable you to re-evaluate those derivative typologies, such that you can decide for yourself whether or not they indeed reflect your personality as you know it.

Also, those who are unfamiliar with Jungian psychology might find it helpful to first review this thread: Jung (In the Weeds): Part One http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4050 I mention this merely because I’d prefer not to have to redefine previously discussed terms and concepts as we go along. Thanks!

When all is said and done, you should be able to self-identify whether you tend toward an extraverted or an introverted attitude of orientation, as well as your primary/dominant function and auxiliary/secondary function that together comprise your conscious psychological type. Note that we’ll not be assigning codes typical of psychometric typologies. For instance, my Jungian type is introverted feeling with introverted or extraverted intuiton. (More later.)

***

That identifiable personality, i.e., psychological, types is part of the human experience has been recognized since before Hippocrates offered his well-known “doctrine of the four temperaments,” so Jung is one among many in a long line of personality theorists that continues to this day. After twenty years of study and investigation, he published his seminal paper entitled Psychological Types in 1921, and his ideas are still bearing fruit, of course. Jungian typology is a practical psychology, in that knowledge of one’s type can be applied in various ways, both individually and in relationship, and in various settings. A client’s exploration of his psychological type was an essential part of Jung’s analytical therapy, and typology is still a focus in contemporary Jungian analysis. In a similar way I’m encouraging you to engage in self-analysis to better understand what comes naturally to you as part of your personal psychology and conscious functioning.

Jung focused on two attitudes of orientation (extraversion, introversion) and four function types (thinking, feeling, sensation, intuition) for a total of eight basic psychological types. These attitudes and types of psychological functioning are biological givens for everyone that contribute to the conscious development and expression of personality; that is, we are born with a predisposition to function psychologically in certain ways. As with all inherited factors, though, individual differences do exist, the reason why, for example, members within the same family will exhibit distinct personality differences. All is not nature, however, when it comes to typology, in that over time both nurture and interaction within various environments will influence the expression of one’s basic type. Also, as one pursues personal growth or individuation, he/she can come to make more conscious use of various psychological functions (e.g., a reason why I can make equal use of introverted and extraverted intuition as mentioned above), while attempts to suppress the expression of what comes naturally, whether from without or from within, can cause psychological distress and lead to what Jung called a “falsification of type.”

I want to mention one last thing before we turn to the attitudes and functions. The seeming simplicity of Jung’s basic eight types as I’ll present them is illusory. No such thing exists as a “pure type,” yet for explanatory purposes that’s what I’ll offer in this post; the same holds for Jung should anyone read his Psychological Types, and, so you know, not until near the end of the paper does he finally mention this. Only self-examination can reveal the intricacies and many nuances of one’s personal typology. Something else to keep in mind is that when it comes to considering the psychological type of another, one’s own type will influence how the other is perceived and/or judged.


***

Those familiar with Jungian psychology will recall that the psyche is conceived in dualistic terms and that the principle of opposites is paramount. With regard to typology, these are the typical pairs of opposites to be considered: conscious (ego)/unconscious, extraversion/introversion, subject/object, thinking/feeling, sensation/intuition, and rational/nonrational. (Jung used the term “irrational” as the opposite of rational, yet I’ll use the more contemporary nonrational to avoid eliciting the layman’s sense of “irrational” as denoting something silly, unimportant, etc.)

Psychological Type and Consciousness. The introductory material in this post will specifically refer to consciousness and the organization of conscious psychological contents and processes by the ego. (The unconscious plays a role as well, yet this is beyond the basics as I want to present them.)

Attitudes of Orientation: Extraversion and Introversion. To be “oriented” is to view and interpret reality, self, and others in a certain way psychologically. Jung came to recognize that two basic attitudes of orientation are common among people, extraversion and introversion. The extraverted attitude focuses psychic energy on the objective, outer world of people and things as a means to orient the ego, i.e., the “object” is of primary significance, while the introverted attitude focuses psychic energy on one’s subjective, inner world as a means to orient the ego, i.e., the “subject” is of primary significance. It was Jung who coined the terms “extravert” and “introvert” from the Latin extra- meaning “outward,” intro- meaning “inward,” and vertere meaning “to turn.” Neither attitude is somehow better than the other, and each of us makes use of both in various ways, but we are predisposed to favor one conscious orientation over the other; thus one is primarily extraverted or primarily introverted. For the extravert, the deciding and motivating factor is always objective elements and what lies outside himself; for the introvert, the deciding and motivating factor is always what those objective elements elicits within him internally. The extravert, therefore, is naturally most interested in the outer world of people and things, while the introvert is naturally most interested in his inner life and minimizing the influence of the outer world.

The Rational Functions: Thinking and Feeling. A rational function entails the acts of reasoning and judging. The thinking function as Jung conceived it is a label for a variety of cognitive processes that enable the ego to objectively process information and subsequently make decisions and act on that information. The feeling function is a label for a variety of cognitive processes that enable the ego to process information subjectively in terms of its value as a means of decision-making and action. Each of us makes use of both rational functions, but we are predisposed to favor one type of conscious rational functioning over the other; its opposite, therefore, will be less well developed and more likely to be influenced by the unconscious. In the next section I’ll offer descriptions of the conscious thinking and feeling functions in both their extraverted and introverted forms.

The Nonrational Functions: Sensation and Intuition. A nonrational function entails the acts of perceiving and registering information. The sensing function is a label for a variety of perceptual processes that enable the ego to become aware of concrete experiential information arising from the body’s sensory systems. The intuitive function is a label for a variety of perceptual processes that enable the ego to become aware of abstract information such as patterns of meaning or symbols. Each of us makes use of both nonrational functions, but we are predisposed to favor one type of conscious nonrational functioning over the other; its opposite, therefore, will be less well developed and more likely to be influenced by the unconscious. In the next section I’ll also offer descriptions of the conscious sensing and intuitive functions in both their extraverted and introverted forms.


***


In this section are brief descriptions of Jung’s eight psychological types. As you read these descriptions, consider which function type seems to come most naturally to you and that you tend to rely on most frequently; this is an indication of your primary/dominant function. Also consider which other function type you tend to rely on frequently but less often than your primary function; this is an indication of your natural auxiliary/secondary function. Keep in mind the principle of opposites that I mentioned above: thinking and feeling function as opposite rational processes, so it’s unlikely* that you're predisposed to make conscious use of both as primary and auxiliary functions; in the same way sensation and intuition function as opposite perceiving processes; last, if your primary function is rational, your auxiliary function should be perceptual, and if your primary function is perceptual, your auxiliary function should be rational. In this way the psyche strives to maintain a natural balance in conscious functioning in order to enhance our psychological adaptation to reality and to the world of self and others. (Note that contrary to the Myers-Briggs, the primary and auxiliary functions may very well be of the same attitude.)

(*When it comes to the expression of a pair of opposites in consciousness, i.e., thinking/feeling or sensation/intuition, as primary and auxiliary functions, this is unlikely in the majority of cases but not entirely unheard of. First, as one pursues individuation and wholeness, the ability to reliably make conscious use of more functions will develop over time. Second, eventually Jung came to identify a ninth psychological type that he labeled creative, one that develops "creatively" as a temporary adjustment in response to a major life transition or extreme external pressures. Third, certain personalities simply aren’t well differentiated, an indication of some sort of underlying pathology.)


So here is where I get lazy. Wink Some years ago on the web I ran across the following basic descriptions of Jung’s eight psychological types by Linda Berens, Ph.D. (Thank you, Dr. Berens!) No way could I improve on her descriptions, so I offer them in their entirety:


. . .Thinking is a process of evaluating and making judgments based on objective criteria. Using this process we detach ourselves from our values and seek to make decisions based on principles. Activities like discriminating according to a set of criteria or objectively defined standards, analysis according to a set of principles, logic, and cause-effect reasoning are all examples of using the cognitive process of Thinking.

Extraverted Thinking. Organizing, segmenting, sorting, and applying logic and criteria. Contingency planning, scheduling, and quantifying utilize the process of Extraverted Thinking. Extraverted Thinking helps us organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on. One woman labeled the shoeboxes for her 100 pairs of shoes for color, height, style, and comfort. Sometimes the organizing of Extraverted Thinking is more abstract, like a logical argument that is made to "rearrange" someone else's thinking process. An example is when we point out logical consequences and say, "If your do this, then that will happen." In written or verbal communication Extraverted Thinking helps us easily follow someone else's logic, sequence, or organization. It also helps us notice when something is missing, like when someone says he or she is going to talk about four topics and talks about only three. In general, it allows us to compartmentalize many aspects of our lives so we can do what is necessary to accomplish our objectives.

Introverted Thinking. Analyzing, categorizing, and figuring out how something works. Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using Introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, there is a search for a "leverage point" that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system.


Feeling is a process of making evaluations based on what is important, where personal, interpersonal, or universal values serve as guideposts. Using the cognitive process of Feeling, situations and information are assessed subjectively. The impact on people, circumstances, appropriateness, harmony, likes, and dislikes are all considered in making Feeling judgments. Weighing different values, considering ethical and moral issues, attending to personal and relationship goals, and having a belief in something all involve this process.

Extraverted Feeling. Considering others and responding to them. The Extraverted Feeling process is used in relation to particular people and situations and so has a more here-and-now quality than a universal, future, or past quality. When particular people are out of our presence or awareness, we can then adjust to new people or situations. This process helps us "grease the wheels" of social interaction. Often the process of Extraverted Feeling seems to involve a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The "social graces" such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate often revolve around the process of Extraverted Feeling. Associated behaviors might include remembering birthdays, finding just the right card for a person and selecting a gift based on what a person likes. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve Extraverted Feeling. Using this process we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them.

Introverted Feeling. Evaluating importance and maintaining congruence. It is often hard to put words to the values used to make Introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images and feeling-tones more than words. As a cognitive process it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued and wanted. We engage in the process of Introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, "Sometimes some things just have to be said." On the other hand, most of the time this process works "in private" and is seldom expressed directly. Actions often speak louder than words. This process helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the "essence" of a person or a project, and reading another person or action or project with fine distinctions among feeling-tones. When the other person's values and beliefs are congruent with our own, we are inclined to feel kinship with them and want to connect with them.


Sensation is a process of becoming aware of sensory information and often involves responding to that sensory information without any judgment or evaluation of it. Sensory information is concrete and tangible in nature. In the Sensing process the focus is on the actual experience, the facts and the data. As an active perceptual process, it is more than stimulation of the five senses. It is the registration of that stimulation and actively being drawn outward to the concrete realities of a situation or inward to recollections of familiar experiences.

Extraverted Sensing. Experiencing and noticing the physical world, scanning for visible reactions and relevant data. You are one with the experience. There is no "naming" or describing, just pure, vivid experience. The whole scene comes into your awareness almost at once. You may be drawn to experience more and more, seeking any variation that will intensely excite the senses. Writing that is richly descriptive can also evoke extraverted Sensing as can other mental stimulation. The process is momentary and tied to the events of the immediate situation. It is used in the here and now and helps us know what is really there in the physical world and to adapt to it. Extraverted Sensing occurs when we scan for information that is relevant to our interests, then we mentally register data and facts such as baseball statistics, the locations of all the restaurants in town, or the names of all the actors in the popular television shows. There can be an active seeking of more and more input to get the whole picture until all sources of input have been exhausted or something else captures our attention. Associated behaviors include eating a whole box of chocolates for the variety of tastes; playing an instrument for hours with pure enjoyment, not for practice; voracious reading or continual asking of questions to get specifics.

Introverted Sensing. Recalling past experiences, remembering detailed data and what it is linked to. Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current stimulation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and one registers that there is a similarity or a difference--for example, noticing that some food doesn't taste the same and is saltier than it usually is. Introverted Sensing is also operating when you see someone who reminds you of someone else. Sometimes the feeling-tone associated with the recalled image comes into your awareness along with the information itself. Then the image can be so strong your body responds as if reliving the experience. This could be seen as a source of feelings of nostalgia or longing for the way things were. In one instance, a young couple living in Europe spent their weekends trying out restaurants looking for food that tasted like American food.


Intuition is a process of becoming aware of abstract information like symbols, conceptual patterns, and meanings. It is an intangible "knowing" of what something means, how it relates to something else, or what might happen. Some call this the "sixth" sense. Sometimes this process is elicited by an external event, or sometimes this abstract information just seems to present itself to our awareness.

Extraverted Intuition. Inferring relationships, noticing threads of meaning, and scanning for what could be. Extraverted Intuiting involves seeing things "as if" with various possible ways of representing reality. Using this process we can hold many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our minds at once with the possibility that they are all true. This is like weaving themes and "threads" together. We don't know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction with a previous one. Thus there is often an emergent quality to using this process. A strategy or concept emerges based on the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand. Extraverted Intuiting involves realizing that there is always another view. An example is when you listen to one friend tell about an argument and understand perfectly, and then listen to another friend tell a contradictory story and understand that view also. Then you wonder what the real story is because there are always so many different possible meanings.

Introverted Intuition. Foreseeing implications, conceptualizing, and having images of the future or profound meaning. Introverted Intuiting often involves a sense of what will be. The details might be a little fuzzy, but when you tune in to this process, there is some sense of how things will be. Using this process we often are able to get pictures about the future or at least a sense of what will happen before we have any data. Sometimes it is an awareness of what is happening in another location and we have no sensory data to go on. Other times Introverted Intuiting operates when we conceptualize and get a sense of a whole plan, pattern, theory, or explanation. These are the kinds of images that come to us in the shower, in meditative states, or in dreams, and help us deeply understand something. Sometimes they are profoundly symbolic and even universally so. In using this process we tune into a likely future or something universal. This information can then be used to decide what to do next, what to plan for. Introverted Intuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory which takes a problem or situation to a new level. Using this process we can have moments when a completely new, unimagined realization comes to us. There is a disengagement from interactions in the room followed by a sudden "Aha!" or "That's it!" kind of experience. These kinds of experiences are often seen as if they are "psychic" in nature. The sense of the future and the realizations that come from Introverted Intuiting have a sureness to them and an imperative quality that seems to demand action. . .

-- Dr. Linda Berens (My apologies for being unable to provide the web site link.)


***

A final note. The auxiliary/secondary function supports the primary/dominant function, and a well developed auxiliary function can sometimes function as the primary. This types mandala offers a sense of how this relationship works. Also note how the opposites are displayed. (Yep, I colored it myself. Razz )





***


For any interested in reading Jung’s 1921 paper entitled Psychological Types, go here: http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm

A collection of Jungian essays on typology are available in this book also entitled Psychological Types: http://www.amazon.com/Psychological-Typ ... 951&sr=1-1

And to help along the way, The Jung Lexicon online: http://www.psychceu.com/Jung/sharplexicon.html



Later!

Cindy

One final note. Unfortunately the illustration that she drew to show this arrangement did not materialize within this copy of the link transfer. To view it here is the link to the above post.

http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic. ... 0013#60013



Namaste :)
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Post by Roncooper » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:51 am

James,

Thank you for the links and the very interesting information. Jung created so much , There is so much here to build on. I wish he had written it in 2010 instead of 1921. I think it would have been very different., His thinking would have been affected by the social changes in the 1960s and 1970s .

I need to point out that I agree with almost everything he wrote, My main issue with this is the idea of using a two dimensional image to represent the functions. This choice forces some of the functions to be opposite. For me the idea that sensuality and intuition are opposites makes no sense.

I think each function is a dimension, and the world of the psyche is five dimensional, not two dimensional.

Putting it another way. If there were only three functions, say intellect, emotion, and intuition, then my intellect would be one of the dimensions, say the length. Then my emotion would be the width and my intuition, the height.

Since there are five, if we include the will, then five dimensions are needed to represent the functions. One way to do this would be to set up a scale for each. We could use IQ as a model.

IQ runs from 0 to roughly 250 with an average of 100, We could set up such a scale for emotion with an average of 100, We could call it our EQ for emotion quotient. We could do the same for willfulness and call it WQ, Sensuality would be our SQ. There is a problem with intuition because it starts with an I like intelligence. Perhaps we could use CQ foe consciousness.

In this system each person would have 5 values that would describe their functions. Some, like the IQ are fixed, but others could change as we live.

This system values each function equally and removes the idea that some are opposed to others.

One final comment. It made me laugh when the word data was used to describe sensual experience. I'm not criticizing. It just struck me funny. I never thought of a sexual orgasm as data,
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton
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