What do you understand by "Transcendence"?

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nandu
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What do you understand by "Transcendence"?

Post by nandu » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:23 am

Since we have partially derailed jon's thread on religion into a discussion on transcendence, and also because I felt that it would be fruitful to have an independent discussion on it, I am starting a new thread with this question.

I will quote myself from that other thread for my answer:
Transcendence is not nothingness. Transcendence is that region where being and nothingness become the same.

It is beyond all categories of thought, because when I think, the "I" takes shape. In the transcendent realm there is no "I" - only pure experience.
Please note that I am leaving out the religious question here, since I think transcendence should be discussed in a wider context.

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Post by jonsjourney » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:33 am

For what it's worth, I do not think that the transcendence questions have derailed the other thread at all. :)
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Post by jonsjourney » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:28 am

I will quote myself from the same thread as well...
My primary confusion is why this notion of experiencing transcendent moments needs to exist outside of the circle. A broken circle allows for flow in and out of it, blurring the imaginary line even further.

To see the mystery as a part of us, for me, is far more humbling that to place it outside of me. I am the very same material that emerged from the first moments of this universe and everything that is in it, including the energy that drives it all, is in me...a truly wondrous and humbling notion. -JJ
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Post by Neoplato » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:21 pm

For the record, I consider transcendence the same as Pristine Cognition, Naked Perception and/or Unconditioned Consciousness.

But I would hestitate to label it a "religous" experience. I would say that it is an experience of "realization". Maybe even a "numinous" experience.

Also, you can have many "realizations" without metaphysical qualities.

So I guess what I'm saying is that, IMHO, transcendence is something that is unknowable until it is experienced.
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Post by SteveC » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:42 pm

Nandu,

Saying it is like religion does not make it a religion.

If I eat eggs for dinner, instead of for breakfast, does it change the egg? Do the words breakfast and dinner change meaning because of when I eat the eggs?

Moving things around does not make them different.

It seems to me that part of transcendence is not getting too hung up on definitions, but rather exploring them to their fullest, wherever it leads.
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Post by Clemsy » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:47 pm

jonsjourney wrote:For what it's worth, I do not think that the transcendence questions have derailed the other thread at all. :)
I agree. :-)
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Post by romansh » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:12 am

One of the definitions of transcendence appears to be beyond all categories of thought.

So by definition I don't have a clue what it is.
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Post by Clemsy » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:29 am

romansh wrote:One of the definitions of transcendence appears to be beyond all categories of thought.

So by definition I don't have a clue what it is.
You got it, Rom! :-)
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Post by Neoplato » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:30 am

romansh wrote:One of the definitions of transcendence appears to be beyond all categories of thought.

So by definition I don't have a clue what it is.
Yes, but the taste of maple syrup is beyond all categories of thought until you experience the taste yourself. No one can accurately put into words what maple syrup tastes like.
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Post by SteveC » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:46 am

Neoplato wrote:
romansh wrote:One of the definitions of transcendence appears to be beyond all categories of thought.

So by definition I don't have a clue what it is.
Yes, but the taste of maple syrup is beyond all categories of thought until you experience the taste yourself. No one can accurately put into words what maple syrup tastes like.
Exactly.
Thought is only one part of our experience.
The physical and emotional are all part of the reality we are exploring.

Transcendence is a somewhat misleading word. What we describe as transcended is actually just refined, from a comparative analysis perspective. What is beyond us will be yet another level when we reach it. Refinement implies perpetual transcendence, whereas transcendence implies arrival at a fixed spot. It should certainly be more than just thought, imo.
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Post by jonsjourney » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:34 pm

Ladies and Gentleman....Qualia has entered the building! :lol:
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Post by Cindy B. » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:46 pm

Finally. :wink: All the talk and thought about what cannot be captured or validated by talk or thought does rather miss the point when it comes to such subjective and numinous experiences, no? And I'm referring to Jon's sister thread as well.

Cindy
Last edited by Cindy B. on Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by romansh » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:51 pm

Neoplato wrote:
romansh wrote:One of the definitions of transcendence appears to be beyond all categories of thought.

So by definition I don't have a clue what it is.
Yes, but the taste of maple syrup is beyond all categories of thought until you experience the taste yourself. No one can accurately put into words what maple syrup tastes like.
I can't accurately put into words even after I have tasted it. But if someone had suggested it tasted like sucrose then that would explain a fair amount.
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Post by SteveC » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:52 pm

Is knowing taste a thought or an experience?
You can only see the height of a mountain from its valley.


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Post by romansh » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:54 pm

Cindy B. wrote:Finally. :wink: All the talk and thought about what cannot be captured or validated by talk or thought does rather miss the point when it comes to such subjective and numinous experiences, no?

Cindy
Numinous? My brain produces the both the phenomenous and the numinous experience.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
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