John Lennon

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Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:44 am

Also, let's make sure we stay on topic. Otherwise start a new thread if there isn't one to fit the bill of god and ethics. :-)
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Post by nandu » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:36 am

Clemsy wrote:Also, let's make sure we stay on topic. Otherwise start a new thread if there isn't one to fit the bill of god and ethics. :-)
That's ok, Clemsy. I've shot my bolt and that's it. :P

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Post by SteveC » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:11 pm

nandu wrote:To be ethical, no god is needed. When I exorcised god from my life, I became free.

Can you accept that, Steve? That your faith in god and my disbelief in the same concept are equally valid?

If you do, we can continue this conversation. If not, let us stop it here.

Nandu.
It is not for me to accept or reject. I am just trying to understand what are these ethics that you speak about?

You are implying that nogod is more ethical than god, and that freedom was achieved with no god. Were you free from ethics, or free from something else and arrived at ethics? It doesn't make sense to me.

Obviously, if religion makes you unethical, it is good to be free of the religion. That is why a lot of people don't go to church, even though they believe in god, etc. They reject the hypocrisy of the organization.

Maybe we are having problem with the word ethics. To me, ethics has to do with how we treat one another. It defines the good and the bad. What to do when. Actually, what to do always, regardless of external pressures. It is a common part of eastern philosophy that when others give you vinegar that you return honey. This is classic 'love your enemy' and 'turn the other cheek' philosophy. (Jesus did not invent mercy).

John Lennon, while he did not use the word mercy (that I recall), is clearly suggesting mercy. "All you need is love." Like most artists, he is expressing his confusion with fame and materialism "watching the wheels go round and round". George Harrrison was directly more religious "My Sweet Lord"

Even Joe Campbell is saying the same thing using different words that Clemsy quoted.
What is the kingdom? It lies in our realization of the ubiquity of the divine presence in our neighbors, in our enemies, in all of us.

The word god means good. The second level is whether he is a personal (living) god or not. Ethics, however, is about us. What makes John Lennon, or Joe Campbell, or Buddha, or anybody relevant is the discussion of us. Who we are and who we want to be. To be free, to imagine, nirvana, epiphany are all describing an internal shift "that gets lost in translation" and eventually is discovered. (Although the shifts never ends. There is always more to discover).

Anyway, I will shut up now. I have a better understanding of John Lennon as a result.
I still like Imagine there is no money as a lyric. :-)

He was taken far too young.

Merry Christmas all.
So this is Christmas
And what have you done
Another year over
And a new one just begun
And so this is Christmas
I hope you have fun
The near and the dear ones
The old and the young

A very merry Christmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

And so this is Christmas War is over
For weak and for strong If you want it
For rich and the poor ones War is over
The world is so wrong Now
And so Happy Christmas War is over
For black and for white If you want it
For yellow and red ones War is over
Let's stop all the fight Now

A very merry Christmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

And so this is Christmas War is over
And what have we done If you want it
Another year over War is over
And a new one just begun Now
And so Happy Christmas War is over
Imagine all the people living in peace.
Imagine no possessions.....
You can only see the height of a mountain from its valley.


The radical myth towards which the helix aspires is beyond the desire for money or power, yet which has greater returns than all the power and money in the world could not achieve.
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Post by SteveC » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:36 pm

FYI

The film Imagine Peace will be broadcast in Times Square NY tonight. Crowds are expected to join in singing 'Imagine'.

http://www.examiner.com/article/yoko-on ... are-friday
You can only see the height of a mountain from its valley.


The radical myth towards which the helix aspires is beyond the desire for money or power, yet which has greater returns than all the power and money in the world could not achieve.
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Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:45 pm

Very, very cool. :-)
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by CarmelaBear » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:32 am

Thanks, Steve.

:)
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by Dionysus » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:58 am

Does 'compassion' apply when someone else lacks compassion?
What, you don't think it does? I thought you were a Christian.

When my daughter was a little girl (she's now 25) we would often converse about compassion. There were several themes which were at the fore as I raised and home schooled her. Participate joyfully in the sorrow of the world was a frequent subject. Have compassion for those around you was another. Because we (and she) were different from those around us (and before I pulled her out of the public school system) she was a target for bullies. I remember walking and talking with her about the necessity for have compassion for those who bullied her. I remember saying that she should do this because those who engage in this type of behavior must be so unhappy and fearful themselves that they are worthy of our compassion and we should acknowledge that and celebrate that. To be compassionate only to those who are compassionate themselves is no great stretch. I think someone at sometime said that we should turn the other cheek, but in doing so we should do so with love.
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Post by Dionysus » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:22 am

So. I think I have tickets to see the Beatles at the Ed Sullivan show in NYC and head into the city with a buddy of mine. When I get there I am disappointed to discover that what I have are vouchers to apply for one of the limited seats. And my hopes seem to be dashed.

So. We're wandering about checking out the throngs of women and trying to figure out what to do next, when a guy comes up to me, after noticing my very long (for 1963) hair. He is doing a story for the now-defunct World Telegram and Sun on the crowds welcoming the Beatles and wants to take some photos for his story using moi as a subject. Which he does.

He then asks if I have tickets to see the show to which I tell him my tale of woe. He says to meet him in an hour and he'll see what he can do. We never expect to see him again.

An hour later he meets us at the agreed upon place and he tells us that it is a no go to see the show, BUT, he's gonna try to get us backstage, now. Kewl!

We get through the police lines and head through the stage door. Now we're in. We can actually hear them playing (that in itself is an experience). We get stopped by a cop. He says that he doesn't care who we are we can go no further. The reporter apologizes. We are blown away that we got this far and are about to head back out when the band breaks for lunch and comes walking off stage towards us. And there we are talking to the band. We walk out with them and accompany them to there limo. They drive off. We wend our way back through the police lines and get thronged by countless women who had witnessed us talking to John and the boys.

My photo appears in the paper the next day, a 2x3" shot. Now that was a trip! -- D.
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Post by Cindy B. » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:37 am

Get outta' here! Awesome! 8)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:29 pm

Awesome story! :-)
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by JamesN. » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:04 pm

Dionysus:
Now that was a trip! -- D.
What a fabulous story; thanks for sharing it! :D
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne
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Post by CarmelaBear » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:41 pm

OMG, Dio!!!!

I am touching your words. That's as close as I ever hope to get to the FAB FOUR.

OMG!!!!!!

Dio!

YIKES!

[teeny bopper screaming out of control}

8) :shock: 8) :D :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by cadfael » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:07 pm

John Lennon just wanted to be a normal guy. The last five years of his life he did not create. He did of course put out Double Fantasy, but beyond that he did not write anymore. He was a dad and husband. To the world he said fuck you if you don't like what I do music wise. He'd probably say fuck you and be yourself. Imagine yourself. Imagine living as yourself today. Mindgames is Lennon's best in my opinion. I'd thank him for that song.Would he really care deep down. A little I would imagine. He could have told me to fuck off had I said his song was shit. I respect him for that because he wanted to be a normal guy.
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Post by CarmelaBear » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:43 pm

Too gifted to relax and be free.

Nice to hear your voice, Cadfael....swearing and all.
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Post by cadfael » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:17 pm

You can say that again. :D
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