The Immaterial

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romansh
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The Immaterial

Post by romansh » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:02 pm

The free will thread is devolving into materialists are closed minded in some fashion or another.

The immaterial is a dualism in that it is a denial that the mind and matter are one. So I would like this thread to be a place where immaterialists can place their evidence and be open minded when skeptics might question them.

The evidence for immaterialism is...
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Post by Clemsy » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:22 am

Oh you'll have to give a specific definition of that word to start off, Rom.
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Post by romansh » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:58 pm

Clemsy wrote:Oh you'll have to give a specific definition of that word to start off, Rom.
How about whatever isn't material (in the scientific sense?
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Post by Clemsy » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:51 pm

Specifically, you are labeling one as 'materialist' or 'immaterialist.'

What is an immaterialist?
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Post by Roncooper » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:26 pm

How about the fact that the infinity of real numbers is larger than the infinity of counting numbers.

This truth is beyond the reach of physical reality, and while it can be hard to grasp infinity, the truth of the statement is intellectually obvious.
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Post by romansh » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:37 am

Clemsy wrote:Specifically, you are labeling one as 'materialist' or 'immaterialist.'

What is an immaterialist?
Well it is a battle cry that materialism is a false position, not mine but c'est la vie.

Also I did give on aspect of immaterialism in the OP. It is a type of dualism. But I should let those that promote the position explain what it is.

Apparently it is someone who is comfortable with the concept of infinity. Having said that I have come across materialists who are comfortable with infinity.

So I don't think that is necessarily so.
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Post by Roncooper » Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:27 am

Rom wrote,
Well it is a battle cry that materialism is a false position, not mine but c'est la vie.

Also I did give on aspect of immaterialism in the OP. It is a type of dualism. But I should let those that promote the position explain what it is.

Apparently it is someone who is comfortable with the concept of infinity. Having said that I have come across materialists who are comfortable with infinity.

So I don't think that is necessarily so.
I don't follow.
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Post by romansh » Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:28 am

Perhaps rather than me trying to explain what non materialism (immaterialism) means, you could actually explain what it means to you?
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Post by Roncooper » Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:12 am

The dictionary says it means nonphysical.

It seems to me that mathematics is nonphysical. There are infinities everywhere, and as I pointed out there are infinities that are larger than other infinities. There are irrational numbers like pi that can't be written down, so we use a letter to represent them. there is zero. There are imaginary numbers.

None of this is found in the physical universe. When we right down a number or an equation the entire mathematical universe is implied. Writing down 1,2,3 implies infinities of numbers between them. None of this is physical, but we can use it for practical purposes if we know how..
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Post by romansh » Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:44 pm

Roncooper wrote:The dictionary says it means nonphysical.

It seems to me that mathematics is nonphysical. There are infinities everywhere, and as I pointed out there are infinities that are larger than other infinities. There are irrational numbers like pi that can't be written down, so we use a letter to represent them. there is zero. There are imaginary numbers.

None of this is found in the physical universe. When we right down a number or an equation the entire mathematical universe is implied. Writing down 1,2,3 implies infinities of numbers between if we look a bit deeper. them. None of this is physical, but we can use it for practical purposes if we know how..
So concepts like infinity and transcendence are nonphysical?

These concepts are written in the pages of a book, vibrations in the air, images on a screen and ultimately in arrangements of molecules (and other bits and pieces) in the brain.

I would agree they seem nonphysical. But things are not always what they seem. Especially if we look a bit deeper.
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Post by Roncooper » Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:30 pm

You can write down the symbol for pi, but pi doesn't exist in nature, that would require infinite precision.
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Post by romansh » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:35 am

Roncooper wrote:You can write down the symbol for pi, but pi doesn't exist in nature, that would require infinite precision.
So you think Pi is immaterial? The concept of Pi is a product of an arrangement of fundamental particles that happen to describe how certain aspects of the universe tick.
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Post by Roncooper » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:39 am

I am not talking about how we manifest pi. Anyway I'm tried, You have your religion and I have mine.
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Post by romansh » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:51 pm

Came across this you tube of Dave Allen inadvertently

Could not help but think of immaterialism ... sorry :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS3BZs5fx3Q
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Post by Roncooper » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:36 am

I agree. The interviewer, the pope , and the comedian are blind. It is obvious from the way they behave. Not their fault, though.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton
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