## The Immaterial

**Moderators:** Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

- romansh
- Associate
**Posts:**2277**Joined:**Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:25 am**Location:**In the woods, BC, near US border-
**Contact:**

### The Immaterial

The free will thread is devolving into materialists are closed minded in some fashion or another.

The immaterial is a dualism in that it is a denial that the mind and matter are one. So I would like this thread to be a place where immaterialists can place their evidence and be open minded when skeptics might question them.

The evidence for immaterialism is...

The immaterial is a dualism in that it is a denial that the mind and matter are one. So I would like this thread to be a place where immaterialists can place their evidence and be open minded when skeptics might question them.

The evidence for immaterialism is...

"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

How about the fact that the infinity of real numbers is larger than the infinity of counting numbers.

This truth is beyond the reach of physical reality, and while it can be hard to grasp infinity, the truth of the statement is intellectually obvious.

This truth is beyond the reach of physical reality, and while it can be hard to grasp infinity, the truth of the statement is intellectually obvious.

If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton

- romansh
- Associate
**Posts:**2277**Joined:**Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:25 am**Location:**In the woods, BC, near US border-
**Contact:**

Well it is a battle cry that materialism is a false position, not mine but c'est la vie.Clemsy wrote:Specifically, you are labeling one as 'materialist' or 'immaterialist.'

What is an immaterialist?

Also I did give on aspect of immaterialism in the OP. It is a type of dualism. But I should let those that promote the position explain what it is.

Apparently it is someone who is comfortable with the concept of infinity. Having said that I have come across materialists who are comfortable with infinity.

So I don't think that is necessarily so.

"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

Rom wrote,

I don't follow.Well it is a battle cry that materialism is a false position, not mine but c'est la vie.

Also I did give on aspect of immaterialism in the OP. It is a type of dualism. But I should let those that promote the position explain what it is.

Apparently it is someone who is comfortable with the concept of infinity. Having said that I have come across materialists who are comfortable with infinity.

So I don't think that is necessarily so.

If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton

The dictionary says it means nonphysical.

It seems to me that mathematics is nonphysical. There are infinities everywhere, and as I pointed out there are infinities that are larger than other infinities. There are irrational numbers like pi that can't be written down, so we use a letter to represent them. there is zero. There are imaginary numbers.

None of this is found in the physical universe. When we right down a number or an equation the entire mathematical universe is implied. Writing down 1,2,3 implies infinities of numbers between them. None of this is physical, but we can use it for practical purposes if we know how..

It seems to me that mathematics is nonphysical. There are infinities everywhere, and as I pointed out there are infinities that are larger than other infinities. There are irrational numbers like pi that can't be written down, so we use a letter to represent them. there is zero. There are imaginary numbers.

None of this is found in the physical universe. When we right down a number or an equation the entire mathematical universe is implied. Writing down 1,2,3 implies infinities of numbers between them. None of this is physical, but we can use it for practical purposes if we know how..

If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton

- romansh
- Associate
**Posts:**2277**Joined:**Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:25 am**Location:**In the woods, BC, near US border-
**Contact:**

So concepts like infinity and transcendence are nonphysical?Roncooper wrote:The dictionary says it means nonphysical.

It seems to me that mathematics is nonphysical. There are infinities everywhere, and as I pointed out there are infinities that are larger than other infinities. There are irrational numbers like pi that can't be written down, so we use a letter to represent them. there is zero. There are imaginary numbers.

None of this is found in the physical universe. When we right down a number or an equation the entire mathematical universe is implied. Writing down 1,2,3 implies infinities of numbers between if we look a bit deeper. them. None of this is physical, but we can use it for practical purposes if we know how..

These concepts are written in the pages of a book, vibrations in the air, images on a screen and ultimately in arrangements of molecules (and other bits and pieces) in the brain.

I would agree they seem nonphysical. But things are not always what they seem. Especially if we look a bit deeper.

"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

- romansh
- Associate
**Posts:**2277**Joined:**Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:25 am**Location:**In the woods, BC, near US border-
**Contact:**

So you think Pi is immaterial? The concept of Pi is a product of an arrangement of fundamental particles that happen to describe how certain aspects of the universe tick.Roncooper wrote:You can write down the symbol for pi, but pi doesn't exist in nature, that would require infinite precision.

"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

- romansh
- Associate
**Posts:**2277**Joined:**Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:25 am**Location:**In the woods, BC, near US border-
**Contact:**

Came across this you tube of Dave Allen inadvertently

Could not help but think of immaterialism ... sorry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS3BZs5fx3Q

Could not help but think of immaterialism ... sorry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS3BZs5fx3Q

"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"