The Immaterial

Do you have a conversation topic that doesn't seem to fit any of the other conversations? Here is where we discuss ANYTHING about Joseph Campbell, comparative mythology, and more!

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romansh
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Post by romansh » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:45 am

Roncooper wrote:I agree. The interviewer, the pope , and the comedian are blind. It is obvious from the way they behave. Not their fault, though.
The good thing Ron ... it's not your fault either.
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Post by Roncooper » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:48 am

Nor yours.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton
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Post by romansh » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:37 am

Roncooper wrote:Nor yours.
Exactly Ron ... this is exactly my point.

Forgiveness is completely unnecessary.
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Post by Roncooper » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:25 pm

In this case.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton
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Post by romansh » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:22 am

Roncooper wrote:In this case.
Ah, I see.

So is it the material or the immaterial that does the forgiving and is it the immaterial or the material that requires the forgiveness?

In certain cases that is.
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Post by Roncooper » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:31 am

Why mist it always be either-or?
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Post by romansh » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:00 am

Roncooper wrote:Why mist it always be either-or?
Ron
Please have a go at answering my question. thanks.
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Post by Roncooper » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:35 am

OK but I am tired of the stalemate. These years of discussions are wearing me down to the point that I am beginning to accept Alan Watts' description that tt is more about plot development and not about progress.

Here goes.

I forgive. In my opinion I am what Jung called the Self, the whole person. So, what is that? That depends on the beliefs of the interested party.

My personal belief is similar to a line in a poem by Kabir. I looked for the poem, but I cannot find it.

He says something like, I am the wedding of the immanent and the transcendent., From this perspective, when I forgive , my forgiveness comes from both.

Of course a Buddhist, who thinks only consciousness is real would say forgiveness is transcendent, and a materialist would say it is immanent.

The dance goes on.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton
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Post by romansh » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:00 pm

So both the immanent and the transcendent can require forgiveness at times?

And does the material need forgiveness?

Funnily enough I was speaking to a spiritually inclined lady a few weeks ago and she was saying we need to be able to forgive ourselves and others. I replied to the effect that ultimately there is nothing to forgive.

She paused and then said forgiveness is a stepping stone to this position.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
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