dragons (and maidens and knights)

Who was Joseph Campbell? What is a myth? What does "Follow Your Bliss" mean? If you are new to the work of Joseph Campbell, this forum is a good place to start.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

Locked
Siddha
Associate
Posts: 1310
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Post by Siddha » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Raphael,

Interesting putting the dragon on the fourth chakra using physics! I'd say you scientifically expressed that which is found in each hero's quest. The dragon at the ultimate threshold!

Nandu,

I think your wife serves as "how-to" model in your dream. She just picked it up and held the baby and it was transformed. What is the difference between her approach and your uncle's?
User avatar
nandu
Associate
Posts: 3395
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:45 am
Location: Kerala, the green country
Contact:

Post by nandu » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Cliff,

I never saw my uncle take the dragon. Like it happens in dreams, suddenly it is with him.

My wife takes the child as any woman would take a child. But my uncle hates animals, and it is surprising to see him playing with one.

Your insights are very helpful. I am rather excited. I'm all keyed up, and I am sure to have more episodes of this dream.Let's get to the bottom of this dragon thing!

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu
Raphael
Associate
Posts: 724
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:44 pm
Location: SPACETIME

Post by Raphael » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

At the end there is a moral to this story…

Yes we have inner and outer dragons we must slay.
Fire-breathing dragons.

What is fire?

It is a rapid oxidation releasing heat and light.
The study of heat is thermodynamics. There are 3 Laws. Einstein said forever unchallengeable.
The 1st Law is known as the 'law of conservation'.
The 2nd Law is known as the 'law of penalty or entropy'.

And essentially it must be noted, by using fire, man can accelerate and contribute to the overall entropy of his environment. Both his inner and outer environments are effected by the causes of his actions.
Not unlike the universe, which seeks thermodynamic equilibrium, we also seek a balance within.

Fire was the seed of technology.
All technologies arose from fire.
Anything that requires electricity, heat, light, anything we require to manipulate matter arose from our mastery of fire, the first elemental gift given to mankind. Directed by our inner dragon desires, we sought to take domination over the other three elements, in this order, the earth, then water and finally the air. Wait, one more battle will ensue, the battle for our minds. In our mind this battle rages since the beginning of time. It is the metaphorical Garden of Eden, the two hemispheres represented by the Two Trees, Knowledge and Wisdom.
What we see today is the collective vision of all our dragons. Each of us, as hero must find and identify our dragon and slay him. It is not unlike the quest for a soul mate, finding and rescuing the Princess Willimena. Everyone though just referred to her as Will. So the journey is thus identified as 'Free Will'. It is a path only few chose, not everyone identifying with Will. For those that chose to confront the dragon, and exercising their right to free Will, conquering the dragon they identified with in the cave, the Princess is thus revealed, and it is you. Further revealing it is you also who sends out the distress signal.
And how do we come prepared to rescue the fair maiden, perhaps the Goddess within.

Each of us is also a Wizard, and each of us has a Dragon at our disposal, under our guidance and mastery.
Our Wizard knowledge was garnered from the Tree of Knowledge, each bite from the apple, recording, and accumulating more entropy within the environment.
As Wizards we like to play and concoct with elemental soups. We are also alchemists.
We are, each and every human being, a Matter Alchemist.
What this means is all 6 + billion of us has the ability to manipulate the matter that comes from the womb of our macro-mom Gaia, the elemental Earth.
Manipulating matter thus satisfies all of our DESIRES, the comforts that mother provides. Are your inner desires driven by need or comforts satisfied by lust, envy, sloth, greed, pride, wrath and gluttony?
It is that simple believe nothing else. I no longer do. It is an undeniable truth.
So the question that arises is how much raping and plundering of Mom can we the Wizards get away with?
How much matter (which we convert to energy), how much power does the Wizard in each of us want to control?
Who are the Grand Wizards today controlling the Universal flow of energy?
How much magick, in creating our ‘graven image’ society and culture of pride and ego can we irresponsibly get away with under the radar before Father Sun and Mother Earth take notice and give us a real good spanking?
Spare the rod and spoil the child.
So each of our dragons manifests itself on the world stage.

Lowbrow infotainment, emanating from that white light in the corner of your living rooms, where the hearth used to be, once poetic dancing fire, has now been altered. Emanating from fire are the primary colors of yellow, red and blue, however TV uses RGB light to project into our minds a different spectrum of light and not unlike a holograph, forging new symbols into the unaware dumbed and numbed down TV un-consciousness. (Read Hawkings' theories on the Holograph Principle)

Shows like ‘Fear Factor’ is a dragon that was inside one individual. And he let it escape into the macro world. His inner ‘tit and ass’ vision was allowed to become a reality.
His desire for fame and wealth was greater than his commitment to a human ‘being’ his brother’s keeper. Which can only be achieved if we have a reverence for the Goddess.
Shows like Maury Povich, Jerry Springer, CNN, FOX and many more are used to promote and reinforce negativity toward your fellow man and women.
So I suggest we 'stay away from the white light', be selective, we then have time to face east, toward our rising Father Sun, where the yellow light of gold or auM, the source of life, emanates. (The pieces all fit)

Dragons and Fire and Technology and TV are all connected.

THEY, the modern day mythmakers are using technology to mold our inner and outer Dragons.

But there is always a duality present. There is a flip side, two sides to the coin, and the razor's edge always produces two results in the field of pairs and opposites.

If we slay these inner dragons successfully and return from our quest as heroes, we can use the now shackled Dragon to our advantage. We are now Hero, Goddess, and Wizard.

What is the moral of the story?

Our Dragon needs to be kept on a leash, muzzled, trained well, and people need to learn to pick up after their dragon.
Wizards need to take ownership of their dragons' shit and stop projecting their negative light onto others, especially the Hero and the Goddess.


Within each of us is dragon; if we conquer him and coax him out of the cave we can all go flying!

Namaste

Raphael


_________________
ENERGY = GOD
Thus the primordial Law of Thermodynamics says...
God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for making vain graven images and it is called Entropy.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raphael on 2005-10-09 11:44 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raphael on 2005-10-09 23:14 ]</font>
Siddha
Associate
Posts: 1310
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Post by Siddha » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Nandu, your uncle doesn't like animals but is playing with the "Franken-dragon" in your dream.

You don't like your dragon energy because it is deformed. But you play with it. It seems to me that your wife accepted the baby as it was and it was transformed. What would happen if you did the same?

Raphael,

Wow, there is a lot in your post. Seems to me that your perception of dragon is the negative side of a wizard. I believe that if you kill the dragon by controlling him you also kill the wizard. You're left with a passionless machine-wizard. Hmmm... that's an interesting connection to my dream. In my dream the dragon's save the day.

As far as "fear factor" goes... I see it as quite the spiritual show. It's all about people being taken to the brink of the abyss... and going beyond their self perceived limitations. Without any spiritual context, at a rational level the effect might go unrecognized or appreciated. However, at a subconscious level it is feeding the fire of dissatisfaction.

User avatar
nandu
Associate
Posts: 3395
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:45 am
Location: Kerala, the green country
Contact:

Post by nandu » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Cliff,

I think I'll have to accept my dragon energy but it's not yet time. Maybe I perceive it as deformed, but it's only a perception.

I'll have to wait.

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu
Siddha
Associate
Posts: 1310
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Post by Siddha » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

but it's not yet time
This is "playing" with the dragon. You're tickling him under the chin, neither accepting nor rejecting him... Limbo like time are an illusion, if now is not the time then when? <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">

One way you could play with the dragon and work towards transforming him is to write about dragons! <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif"> Then if you like we can swap stories. I have a half finished one about a dragon called Dragen! (Creative name don't you think... LOL)
User avatar
nandu
Associate
Posts: 3395
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:45 am
Location: Kerala, the green country
Contact:

Post by nandu » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Cliff,

Actually I believe I know what's my problem with the dragon, but it's too personal and I can't bring myself to share it, even on these forums. Mind you, I may be wrong.

But I'll take you up on your suggestion and write a dragon story. I had it all written in my mind sometime back, but didn't put it down on paper. Maybe since I've started writing again, it'll work out. But it's in Malayalam and you'll have to wait for a translation!

Yesterday night I had an extremely erotic dream, which unfortunately vanished by the time I woke up. It had to do with an airplane, and a very sexy lady.

Maybe my dragon is playing with me?

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu
Siddha
Associate
Posts: 1310
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Post by Siddha » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

dragon = plane? Interesting because in my dream there is also a dragon => machine connection. Maybe for modern people it is archetypal?
User avatar
nandu
Associate
Posts: 3395
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:45 am
Location: Kerala, the green country
Contact:

Post by nandu » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Don't know...perhaps tonight's dream (if I have one) will tell. I will report back tomorrow.

A lot of the myths in India are in the form of conversations. Maybe we are creating myth here, cliff?

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu
Siddha
Associate
Posts: 1310
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Post by Siddha » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

You are a living and breathing myth my friend! <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">
Raphael
Associate
Posts: 724
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:44 pm
Location: SPACETIME

Post by Raphael » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

On 2005-10-11 16:59, cliff w wrote:

Raphael,

Wow, there is a lot in your post. Seems to me that your perception of dragon is the negative side of a wizard. I believe that if you kill the dragon by controlling him you also kill the wizard. You're left with a passionless machine-wizard. Hmmm... that's an interesting connection to my dream. In my dream the dragon's save the day.

As far as "fear factor" goes... I see it as quite the spiritual show. It's all about people being taken to the brink of the abyss... and going beyond their self perceived limitations. Without any spiritual context, at a rational level the effect might go unrecognized or appreciated. However, at a subconscious level it is feeding the fire of dissatisfaction.
Cliff,

I reread my post, then I realized that in composing my dragon tale I had placed the Wizard and the Dragon into the same adversarial position that I would have placed the Jesus vs. Satan consciousness.

And I think the analogy has merit, it fits. However I care not to interpret your dreams, I can only suggest a nightlight.
Remember though I did imply a tamed dragon is powerful.

And in regards to shows like 'fear factor' and 'survivor' and their tit and ass premise, do you think you will ever in 'reality'see Survivor Greenland? Or stunts that do not involve parading around in a bathing suit?
I see no risk in these shows other than bruised egos. There is no abyss to fear Cliff.
As a metaphor, maybe our time is the sacrifice we make staring into abyssmal TV land.
Did't one survivor get 'emergency air-lifted' out of the outback because he had burnt his hand picking up a hot rock or something silly like that?

Are you suggesting the couch potato will embrace the journey of the Hero by living vicarously through the TV and after 3 days of sloth will resurrect himself?

TV like everything else in the field of pairs and opposites has a dark side emanting from the white light.
And people need to realize negative light projected in their direction alters their light.

namaste

Raphael
ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...<br>God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.
Mark O.
Working Associate
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:52 am

Post by Mark O. » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

On 2005-10-13 15:06, cliff w wrote:
dragon = plane? Interesting because in my dream there is also a dragon => machine connection. Maybe for modern people it is archetypal?
Just got finished reading Wells' The Time Machine and this connection between dragon and machine you point out reminds of the Morlocks and their underground machinery. A traditional interpretation of the story is that the Eloi and Morlocks represent a cautionary view of the future of humanity split along socioeconomic lines.

Another, less traditional, and more psychoanalytical interpretation is that the characteristics we share with the Morlocks - the ones associated with savagery, barbarism, anger, predatory behavior (the same characteristics some people associate with dragons) - must be buried or subjugated.

This thought is rather incomplete - as I more or less felt the connections... I'll have to think and explore them more deeply.

Mark
Siddha
Associate
Posts: 1310
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Post by Siddha » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Mark, welcome to the fray!

If I had to pick one spiritual symbol it would be Kali, the Hindu Goddess of death and destruction (also of rebirth or transcendence.) I can’t express how brilliant I think she is. It would take years of writing to get out maybe 1% worth. When I talk to others I don’t often get the same reaction. My guess so far is that the vast majority of westerners have bought into (as you put it):
savagery, barbarism, anger, predatory behavior (the same characteristics some people associate with dragons) - must be buried or subjugated.
And why not? Especially after witnessing the savagery of any war or act of violence… but maybe in the process we throw out the baby with the bathwater… Kali energy is great when we want to break down a self imposed limitation or barrier. Subjugating it likely results in people remaining stuck in one place.

Raphael,
Are you suggesting the couch potato will embrace the journey of the Hero by living vicarously through the TV and after 3 days of sloth will resurrect himself?
LOL!!! This made me laugh, very good. All I’m saying is that these shows aren’t all bad, I think they are (misguided as the may be) the result of a broader dissatisfaction that is growing in society. People want to test themselves. But outside of a spiritual context how do we do it? We don’t know. So we do it through physical or intellectual gymnastics. But that's not enough, so now (staged as it might be) we’re creating some highly voyeuristic and artificial scenarios to see people publicly testing themselves emotionally (in addition to physically and intellectually). But that too will just lead to increasing levels of dissatisfaction. And hey, give them a break, it’s only TV… how good do you expect them to get it? Most of these misguided attempts at discovering one bliss will lead to short-term failure and result in greater frustration, dissatisfaction and suffering. Which is potential fuel to motivate someone to try something beyond the material. I believe all people are on a quest that will challenge them physically, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually. It can’t be done if any one of these pieces is missing. We’re slowly working our way there. In the big scheme of things TV in general will be a tiny blip in the process that played it role in teaching “how not to lessons.”

However, and this is a big one, I have to ask why couldn’t a:

couch potato embrace the journey of the Hero by living vicarously through the TV and after 3 days of sloth resurrect himself?

Have you found a formula to enlightenment that can be applied to all people equally that would contradict the process above? I believe that every person has a perfectly unique path. My perception of diversity is broad enough to include the possibility of “enlightenment through TV watching slothery.” But that’s just me. Comments?


_________________
May you discover challenges worthy of your many gifts!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cliff w on 2005-10-14 12:57 ]</font>
User avatar
nandu
Associate
Posts: 3395
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:45 am
Location: Kerala, the green country
Contact:

Post by nandu » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Cliff,

I was also fascinated by Kali but in another way.

Ever since childhood, I've been terrified of Kali. I used to take care not to look at her picture in the prayer room. But it was like the picture of hell I mentioned in another thread, you don't want to look, but you have a horrible fascination: and then you take a peek and is terrified.

Maybe it's not such a coincidence that we are discussing dragons...

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu
Siddha
Associate
Posts: 1310
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Post by Siddha » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Nandu,

Maybe you can help... I would LOOOOOOOOVE to find a Kali image I could frame and display in my office. Eventually, I have this idea of building an office in my basement and making it a little spooky! (With taste). Give clients a subtle sense of going into a type of dungeon. Anyway, finding a Kali image in Canada has so far proven impossible. If you know of any online stores etc. that wouldn't mind shipping a poster or two to the great white north I'd be very thankful! Also I wonder if there are any Kali statues, myths, etc. I was collecting dragons for a while. Maybe it's time to switch... <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">


Locked