Basic Concepts: The Shadow

Who was Joseph Campbell? What is a myth? What does "Follow Your Bliss" mean? If you are new to the work of Joseph Campbell, this forum is a good place to start.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

Locked
Neoplato
Associate
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Neoplato » Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:52 am

Anreas Wrote:
I saw a documentary some time ago it was kinda about the evolution of man and it was making a point that the only reason that man/woman minds have evolved is because he/she was able to accidentally use a rock like knife to cut meat and become sarcophagus which lead to the brain taking more protein and evolving to a thinking consciousness. So i guess the knife is good depending on how you use it.
Now this notion has crossed my mind in the past, although I've never heard or saw anything on the subject. Since humans are obviously Herbivores, was the forbidden fruit actually "meat"? And did this somehow awaken our consciousness?

Interesting....very interesting. :wink:
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.
Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. » Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:03 am

No doubt about it, guys--humans are natural omnivores.

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
Neoplato
Associate
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Neoplato » Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:27 am

No doubt about it, guys--humans are natural omnivores.
Hey Cindy, Not according to a couple of vegans I know. The "omnivore" was by choice. Their big argument is "Why do we have to cook our meat?" which the answer is 'because our bodies can't consume it otherwise" making it unnatural.

Unfortunately, I'm still a carnivore. But I do feel guilty about it. :D

However, I'm not giving up Pork Chops any time soon. :wink:
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.
Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. » Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:42 am

Neoplato wrote:
No doubt about it, guys--humans are natural omnivores.
Hey Cindy, Not according to a couple of vegans I know. The "omnivore" was by choice.
I'll not beat this one to death, Neoplato, but here's some science: http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/20 ... .Ot.r.html :)

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
Neoplato
Associate
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Neoplato » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:15 am

Humans are omnivores. The order of mammals that includes humans (the
primates) are all omnivores. To be sure, the modern American diet includes
a lot more meat than is healthy. And the human animal can be very healthy
by being a lot more vegetarian. But to never eat meat is both unnatural and
unhealthy.
Hey,,,don't shoot the messenger. :D

I've heard arguments on both sides. IMHO, humans were meant to be herbivores and we chose not to be. I can't give up meat (although I'd like to) so fire up the grill.

But the notion that "meat" was the forbidden "fruit" that lead to self awareness is what I find interesting. I'll just keep that in the back of my mind. :)
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.
richard silliker
Associate
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:28 pm
Contact:

Post by richard silliker » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:40 am

Siddha
Associate

My interpretation is that this person's refusal of the dynamism and suffering that is life has them living in shadow so to speak. Which made me think of people who live in darkness, people who are constantly looking for opportunities to rip others off and win at someone elses expense. They live in shadow too.

So here is my question, can a person reach enlightenment or integration or whatever you want to call it through sheer kindness and love alone? I tend to think that this is not possible. I believe not that we must "act" on our shadow, but I do believe that we must face it and own it. Every shadow contains within it the golden nugget we need to achieve enlightenment. But does it have to be like this always for each person?

Any comments or insights would be greatly appreciated,


Though I have read little on the subject of shadow, I am going to take a stab by suggesting that what is being discussed here is the feeling of dislike. All that we experience is either like, dislike or ambivalence. We may lack the understanding of why we like or dislike some experience. We hold our likes at the centre while our dislikes surround us protecting us from our indifference. It is your indifference to something that will get you killed. You are unable to see cause-difference opened. The misery comes from your failure to bind your dislikes to your likes. In others words you need to go into the thorns of your dislikes in order to find something there that you like (the golden nugget), then bring it back. This is not always possible but it is necessary for personal growth. See the grail legend--where there was no path.

As to the question, the answer is growth, build a robust intuition.

RS
Evinnra
Associate
Posts: 2102
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by Evinnra » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:01 am

Andreas wrote:

Yes and isnt that existence just a reflection of ourselves? Sometimes i think with so much negativity around me how can achieve what iam supposed to achieve then after my teachings here in these boards i wonder if that is only a result because my mind fixates only on what it can see. If all these where to change around me then that would mean that i have changed and that the world is just a reflection of how i think but if everything changed around me that would mean i would have to kill a part of myself and can we really do that? Maybe that is why we need to assimilate and not completely lose that which is holding us back.
In Buddhism the self does not exist in the same sense as it does in Hinduism or western thinking.. To cut a very interesting but rather long story short, in the Buddhist paradigm you would not need to kill anything of your self before you could manifest a new picture of reality. By simply ommitting to bring forth the unwanted bit into the next picture of existence the desired change is made. The point is that what you perceive to be you is the active component in what manifests. Now, that is the point that gets vehemently debated, but for the purpose of our particular topic, it is irrelevant to work out what has more power; the all embracing One-ness or the ego while in the process of making private movies out of the given material. It is irrelevant - I believe - because although in western thinking the self exists, it has freedom of choice - given by God, or the One - and in Hinduism the notion of karma will take care of justice and the self inevitably receives its due.. In every paradigm created by the human mind - except perhaps the determinists paradigm of complete and immutable laws producing ALL that is to come- the notion remains intact that it is the ego's ability and responsibility to make selections.

Yet, if I were wearing the fervent determinists hat, would I not wonder why can't I quit smoking or prattling? If I wonder about these things, I can't help wondering why were these questions placed into my mind and whether I'd be acting in accord with all that was pre-determined if I just kept smoking and babbling?
In a perfectly pre-ordained world, would questions per se occur at all? :wink:
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
http://evinnra-evinnra.blogspot.com
Neoplato
Associate
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Neoplato » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:33 am

Evinnra Wrote:
The point is that what you perceive to be you is the active component in what manifests.
This is an interesting notion. I've had some discussions with a woman who was convinced she could manifest her own reality through the use of positive thought. Although there isn't any evidence of this, you have to ask yourself "How many coincidences must occur before you start to wonder is there a connection".

Although I am not convinced that our realities can be manifested by positive thought, it does explain my situation nicely. Statistically, I should be dead, in jail or living in a trailer park. The coincidences that needed to occur don't seem possible, but yet they happened.

Did I manifest this? Or am I just one lucky SOB? :?:
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.
Evinnra
Associate
Posts: 2102
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:12 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by Evinnra » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:54 am

Neoplato wrote:Evinnra Wrote:
The point is that what you perceive to be you is the active component in what manifests.
This is an interesting notion. I've had some discussions with a woman who was convinced she could manifest her own reality through the use of positive thought. Although there isn't any evidence of this, you have to ask yourself "How many coincidences must occur before you start to wonder is there a connection".

Although I am not convinced that our realities can be manifested by positive thought, it does explain my situation nicely. Statistically, I should be dead, in jail or living in a trailer park. The coincidences that needed to occur don't seem possible, but yet they happened.

Did I manifest this? Or am I just one lucky SOB? :?:
Well Neo, you are in the best position to answer your question. :wink:
What I usually ask my self is not whether I created my reality or someone else did it for me. My question most often is regarding what precisely I am responsible for in whatever situation I happened to be and what is the role I must play to fit with my context. Approaching existence with this question cuts out an awful lot of philosophising and leaves time enough to 'smell the roses'. :lol:

Now, although assigning responsibility is influenced by 'who did what' but I am restricted in what I CAN. So, I just try my best - as often as I can. :arrow: :P
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
http://evinnra-evinnra.blogspot.com
Andreas
Associate
Posts: 2274
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:07 am

Post by Andreas » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:18 am

Did I manifest this? Or am I just one lucky SOB?


Only your perception of what it is reality changes. By changing your perception then you just look at a reality from a different perspective. You can see this through history. People had several gods now they only have one people had limited knowledge of the world thinking the earth was flat that it was hold either by atlas or giant turtles and now they are embracing the universe. What you think it is correct for the given period of time might be just an illusion for the generations of the future. Another example i read in a book about Chaos theory is that distance is relative a step for you that takes a second could be a lifetime journey for an ant etc.

It is exactly that thinking that leads me to think that by taking the appropriate action for my journey will "manifest" the reality around me then every question you ask will revolve around that call so the answers will only have a solution around that which you call your reality so in that respect you do manifest the rules of your so called reality but reality will always be as it was. I dont know did i just said what Evinnra said or i added something. hmm? spin head spin :lol:

Edit: ok as i was wondering in the forest of my mind and i came to the realization that reality is indeed subjective if you think from a consciousness point of view. If archetypes are the psychic instincts that helps us make a collective reality and are "hardwired" or at least biological driven then i came to the conclusion that every person perceives reality in a different manner what could be a certain archetype for me could be something else for another individual? oh my gosh... the confusion.

In a perfectly pre-ordained world, would questions per se occur at all?
You drive me mad!! Its ok i like it more please. Fascinating :lol:
jufa
Associate
Posts: 629
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:07 am
Contact:

Post by jufa » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:50 am

Men can grapple with the idea whether love, and positive thinking will break them through the wall of humanism, and pass them on into the next dimension of life, if such a dimension exist. Man can continue to refuse to acknowledge everything he is aware of, he gives life to its existence within himself. Everything men are consciously aware of was passed down to them from their ancestors, who through the genetic DNA code of transference, passed to succeeding generations. Each succeeding generation continued the cycle of transference to the next, culminating in each man's individual parent, who passed this ancient knowledge on to the now generation.

Then there are the people men meet who passed on their ancient knowledge into their children's awareness in the sophistication of the day. Books, styles, cultures, mannerism of speaking, thinking, religions, philosophy, and man's adaptation to his environment form man base of living simply by man becoming aware and giving that which he is aware of his life to exist. When one is not aware of a subject or object, it does not exist to them. It is man's awareness which give life to whatever world he lives within. It is this experiences of living which becomes the catalyst which catapult the causes and effect of man's prejudicial pride of my right, my choice, and my superiority over other men. This is the mentality which allow man to mount the peak of illusion and keep it alive by giving it their life force of existence.

Consciousness is the life force of the universe and all within it. Consciousness is Self-sustaining, Self-maintaining, and is renewed by the Spirit of Its will, intent, and purpose of regenerating moment to moment to moment. Man is told "we have this treasure in earthern vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us." The excellence of the power of God is manifested, however, and totally dependent on how much of the Mind of Christ is expressed and expanded in the thoughts of man's human mind. Man will do well to take heed to his thoughts, and what he calls his right of passage to choose, because if men take heed, and do not selfishly take thought upon the Consciousness of the life force of the universe within them, and allow their thoughts to freely go forth on the wings of "the law of the Spirit of life" which raised Christ from the dead human thought body, the purity of that treasure of Consciousness within all mankind will dissipate all not of the creation of "the Voice" which uttered "Let there be light.".......

On the other hand, if men do not recognize the pure life force of the thoughts which enter into their minds as being whole, perfect,and complete, with no material substance of attachments for the pairs of opposites to cling to"the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead," men will continue, as did their ancestors and parents, to send forth the duality within their hearts into the psyche of the present and succeeding generations.

Constantly men's minds are penetrated by the human voicing of my God given right and choice to choose. But lets bring this matter down to this human level of understanding and awareness, "for no man has ascended up to heaven but he that descended down from heaven." Life as it presents itself to man now. Life as it was before man became aware of it consciously is a mystery which did not nor does not now have anything to do with man's right to live it by choice, for there is no other choice to life beyond what it presents to all men equally. But because men came to ignorantly believe birth was their source of life, the interval of being born was the cause of their existence. In this belief, comprehension cannot be found in the reality of God except from assumption, speculation, and intellectual opinions, and what has been written by other men of an incomprehensible mystery. Nonetheless, in man's material world, his lack of comprehension enhance the illusion he can improve that which is already created. But that which has been created cannot really be improved, and does not give man the right to choose other than what is, because there is nothing opposite of God to choose from. To change structures within the mind can be changed by a change of thought however, but even this change does not alter the originality of God's intent, purpose, or will to "Let there be."

Change of structure has nothing to do with a man's right or choice, only a change of thought is required, or a desire or drive to expand the form of what is appearing in this moment, to what ones imagination has formed and seeks to introduce into man's conscious world in the next moment. It is this expansion where manipulation find existence, and the enhancement of the belief in the pairs of opposites Adam and Eve passed unto preceding generations of men who tool up the banner and the charge for the voicing of "we are only human."

But change of structure is also an illusion, for it is written: "God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow." Man's right, man's choice to choose, and man's free will of choice are also illusions, since the Godhead is an infinite continuum of, and in the Consciousness of One, not two. Right and choice are not, therefore, attributes of God. Nowhere is there to be found in creation where God differentiate within Him/Her/Itself about a choice to create from anything other that Itself. Man's right and choice to choose between pairs of opposites which are not within God are man's vain imagination, and are barren and fruitless in mankind whose claims, "I am only human." The words of the Preacher stating "Vanity of vanities. . .all is vanity," are more than mere words of wisdom when "One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh, but the earth abideth forever."
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
richard silliker
Associate
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:28 pm
Contact:

Post by richard silliker » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:47 am

Andreas
Edit: ok as i was wondering in the forest of my mind and i came to the realization that reality is indeed subjective if you think from a consciousness point of view. If archetypes are the psychic instincts that helps us make a collective reality and are "hardwired" or at least biological driven then i came to the conclusion that every person perceives reality in a different manner what could be a certain archetype for me could be something else for another individual? oh my gosh... the confusion.
For sure.
"we sacrifice the whole truth of any given experience for the value to which we are constrained".

RS[/quote]
User avatar
Persephonespring
Associate
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:39 pm
Location: Western US

Post by Persephonespring » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:31 pm

I love this topic. The Shadow holds gold, the parts of us that were discarded early. JC said "where we stumble, there lies our treasure." The Shadow is where many of us stumble. Shadow work takes effort, as does anything worth doing, yet the riches it offers are amazing.

US culture appears to only value the light. Not acknowledging that light always has a flip side, the Shadow, sets one up for failure. Dark defines light. We are told to be young, not old; good, not bad; right, not wrong. The news is that they are all on a continuum and we will occupy the whole thing if we only consciously try to stay on one end rather than somewhere in the middle.
Might be a drop in a bucket, but, as I like to say, no drops, no ocean. :-) Clemsy
CarmelaBear
Associate
Posts: 4087
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Post by CarmelaBear » Fri May 07, 2010 2:17 am

I recently caught a program on TV featuring cosmologist Stephen Hawking. He describes the big bang as a vast distribution of atoms that scattered in a uniform way. Had this distribution from the central explosion been perfect, there would have been no universe as we know it. Instead, there was imperfection.

He said that in nature there is no such thing as perfection. We are part of this imperfect nature and like the light, we are subject to the pull of gravity. The most powerful gravitational force is in the dense core of a black hole, and this power can destroy light, pulling the stars to their doom.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
jufa
Associate
Posts: 629
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:07 am
Contact:

Post by jufa » Fri May 07, 2010 9:24 pm

I recently caught a program on TV featuring cosmologist Stephen Hawking. He describes the big bang as a vast distribution of atoms that scattered in a uniform way. Had this distribution from the central explosion been perfect, there would have been no universe as we know it. Instead, there was imperfection.

He said that in nature there is no such thing as perfection. We are part of this imperfect nature and like the light, we are subject to the pull of gravity. The most powerful gravitational force is in the dense core of a black hole, and this power can destroy light, pulling the stars to their doom.

~
When observing anything from objective conjunctions based upon surmised subjective effects, is evidence imperfection nor perfection are not comprehensible in the event observed, but in the observer because perfections, nor imperfection can be defined.

However, perfection can be acknowledged in the invisible and visible worlds by awareness of unconditional, and unaltering Principles and Patterns governing all known worlds in consistency. And although one can mathematically reach of point of origin from beginning and ending with the effect of math, never can a true reality of the math, nor theories be confirmed as perfect or imperfect because:

One may simulate rain, but no one will get wet. No scientific evidence of cause or logic for existence to exist has ever been laid out by any man beyond theories..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edit: I fixed your bbcode, Jufa. ~Clemsy
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
Locked