The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe

Who was Joseph Campbell? What is a myth? What does "Follow Your Bliss" mean? If you are new to the work of Joseph Campbell, this forum is a good place to start.

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Chuck Fountaine
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Post by Chuck Fountaine » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

With the release of this movie, much is being made of the Christian symbolism that CS Lewis integrated into this work, most evident the death and resurrection of Aslan the Lion is an obvious parallel to the life of Jesus.

In reading of Joseph Campbell's books, he writes that the idea of resurrection is by no means something that is unique to Christianity, as it is a theme that has existed previously. I was curious if anyone knew of any other mythological stories in which themes of resurrection are used, or what traditions the writers of the gospels may have used to shape their stories.

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Post by Siddha » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Hi Chuck and welcome!

Your question is a little above my head since it's more of a technical question as an applied mythology (my specialty) one.

In The Power of Myth, Campbell gives a couple of examples. One is from an N American tribe in which a young boy wrestles with a mysterious warrior. At the end of third match the warrior says now you must cut off my head and burry it. The boy does this and the first corn plant emerges. He also describes another story from the Polynesian islands where a maiden is visited by an eel that transforms into a man and becomes her lover. On the 3rd encounter he ask her to cut of his head and bury it. She does this and the first coconut tree emerges from this spot. I believe if you dig further you will find this motif to be quite universal! Hope this helps as a starting point, all the best!


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Post by Raphael » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Interesting Cliff that the examples you provided all involve the burying of the head or perhaps other body parts, however note that these were buried into the earth. The body parts were essentially 'seeds'.

Persephone in early Greek mythology personified this 'seed' mythology also, she representing the growing seasons. The seasons are also an indicator of the amount of 'sunlight' reaching the earth.
This coincides with my observations that much of myth can be interpreted by applying laws of physical science.
Specifically laws referencing 'heat' and 'light'. Both heat and light can be traced back to the origins of the Universe.)


Before death and resurrection was attributed to the Son of God, it was attributed in observation to the Sun. The Sun would be seen to rise in the east and then set or die in the west.
Then each morning the Sun would be seen to have been resurrected rising once more in the east. (is it only a coincidence Allah is prayed to facing East?) Hence the Sun dying each evening in the west led to early superstitions of invaders attacking from the west.

Prometheus it also could be said was resurrected. He was shackled and was sentenced by Zeus to endure a living hell, a conscious death. He was meant to suffer for all eternity. But he was freed by Herakles after 13 generations and thus he was ressurrected.

Persephone, Prometheus, Jesus and the other myths worldwide recounting the tale of death and ressurrection I believe are metaphors for what is happening also not only to the human being, the human spirit in the microcosm but also to our mother, the earth itself.
In the macrocosm the Earth and the Universe also are ‘evolving’ and I believe our role is to have a hand in directing the earths' 'future' through thermodynamic tinkering.
The Deluge is an event forever 'codified' into the human consciousness, part of our DNA perhaps.
Of paramount understanding is that Gaia our elemental Mother also is evolving. Man’s pride and ego seems to place him and his illusions above this reality. It is our downfall.
It has led to an unsustainable, greenless global economy.

The Earth however in it’s life cycle undergoes geomagnetic polarity shifts leading to tremendous pressure on its plate tectonics…hence you have your ‘prophesized’ apocalypse.
What if The Book of Revelations is the re-telling of a cyclical catastrophic event sold as prophecy? Global earthquakes…volcanic activity…tsunamis… here is your fire and brimstone.

And in the individual he too can be ‘reborn’, the individual can die and be resurrected by simply shifting his magnetic field, by shifting their ‘polarity’. This is done often as the individual cycles through their life. Physical death is not necessary for this to take place.
People are often 'reborn'.

What if Jesus and Satan are oppossed and were placed on the north/south axis.
When the documented and measured and cyclical polarity shift takes place here on earth, and I suggest this is metaphoric of the battle between Jesus and Satan, the magnetic fields also will switch, hopefully this may intiate a alteration in the global 'jesus' consciousness.

Here on earth, they are not certain how often this occurs, however the Sun’s magnetic fields ‘flip’ positions every 11 years.
Hmm.

namaste


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ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...
God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.




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Post by Clemsy » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Hey Chuck, this sums some parallels pressty well:
Great Mother of the Gods, in ancient Middle Eastern religion (and later in Greece, Rome, and W Asia), mother goddess, the great symbol of the earth's fertility. As the creative force in nature she was worshiped under many names, including Astarte (Syria), Ceres (Rome), Cybele (Phrygia), Demeter (Greece), Ishtar (Babylon), and Isis (Egypt). The later forms of her cult involved the worship of a male deity (her son or lover, e.g., Adonis, Osiris), whose death and resurrection symbolized the regenerative power of the earth. LINK

Clemsy lives!

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Post by Scarlett » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

I recently took my five year old son to see the movie over the Holiday. Although, I have never read the books, I could certainly see the christian symbolism. However, as Aslan the lion says, there is a "deeper magic" present. This line made me wonder what C.S. Lewis was really trying to say. I know that he was a Christian and a collegue of Tolkien.

I found an interesting article called, "What Did C. S. Lewis Mean, and Does It Matter? A Preview of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe (Film)" by Drew Trotter, Ph.D.

I will post some of it. However, you might want to follow the link below to read the whole article.
C. S. Lewis’s view of myth and its relation to his stories is complex, and would find some agreement with Campbell’s, but fundamentally he disagrees on a number of crucial points. Lewis had been brought up on the materialist construct of Freud and Frazer in the early twentieth century and had believed for many years that all religions were mythic, i.e. unhistorical, in a very similar sense to Joseph Campbell’s belief. Many of his earliest discussions with J.R.R. Tolkien, when Lewis was still an unbeliever, though already a theist, were about this very thing. Eventually, Lewis came to believe in a Christianity that held onto both myth and history and incorporated them both into a belief that Christianity is a myth, but more than a myth because it actually tells of real history and a God who, in space and time, became Incarnate, a word so important to him, he almost always capitalizes it.

In many places, Lewis lays down his ideas on the subject; one of the best is at the end of a brief essay in God in the Dock, entitled "Myth Became Fact." It will be helpful for us to quote it at some length:

Now as myth transcends thought, Incarnation transcends myth. The heart of Christianity is a myth which is also a fact. The old myth of the Dying God, without ceasing to be myth, comes down from the heaven of legend and imagination to the earth of history. It happens—at a particular date, in a particular place, followed by definable historical consequences. We pass from a Balder or an Osiris, dying nobody knows when or where, to a historical Person crucified (it is all in order) under Pontius Pilate. By becoming fact it does not cease to be myth: that is the miracle. I suspect that men have sometimes derived more spiritual sustenance from myths they did not believe than from the religion they professed. To be truly Christian we must both assent to the historical fact and also receive the myth (fact though it has become) with the same imaginative embrace which we accord to all myths. The one is hardly more necessary than the other.

A man who disbelieved the Christian story as fact but continually fed on it as myth would, perhaps, be more spiritually alive than one who assented and did not think much about it. The modernist—the extreme modernist, infidel in all but name—need not be called a fool or hypocrite because he obstinately retains, even in the midst of his intellectual atheism, the language, rites, sacraments, and story of the Christians. The poor man may be clinging (with a wisdom he himself by no means understands) to that which is his life…

Those who do not know that this great myth became Fact when the Virgin conceived are, indeed, to be pitied. But Christians also need to be reminded…that what became Fact was a Myth, that it carries with it into the world of Fact all the properties of a myth. God is more than a god, not less; Christ is more than Balder, not less. We must not be ashamed of the mythical radiance resting on our theology. We must not be nervous about ‘parallels’ and ‘Pagan Christs’: they ought to be there—it would be a stumbling block, if they weren’t. We must not, in false spirituality, withhold our imaginative welcome. If God chooses to be mythopoeic—and is not the sky itself a myth—shall we refuse to be mythopathic? For this is the marriage of heaven and earth: Perfect Myth and Perfect Fact: claiming not only our love and our obedience, but also our wonder and delight, addressed to the savage, the chilled, and the poet in each one of us no less than to the moralist, the scholar, and the philosopher.
From the following link:
http://www.leaderu.com/popculture/meani ... eview.html


When Lewis said, "Now as myth transcends thought, Incarnation transcends myth. The heart of Christianity is a myth which is also a fact. " I thought this is a very interesting perspective from a man who saw the parallels in other myths.

What are your thoughts?




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Post by Clemsy » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Wow Scarlett, I wish I had more time to respond to your post! It's 3:40 AM and i have to hit the road to The City in a few minutes...

We took the 7th grade to see the movie for a holiday treat. I found the movie about as close to the book as could be and quite enjoyed it.

(I was sitting next to a born-again math teacher, and was amused that I knew more about the Christian parallels than she!)

I've always admired Lewis and the strength of his faith. He says some wise things in the above quote...
A man who disbelieved the Christian story as fact but continually fed on it as myth would, perhaps, be more spiritually alive than one who assented and did not think much about it.

We must not be ashamed of the mythical radiance resting on our theology. We must not be nervous about ‘parallels’ and ‘Pagan Christs’: they ought to be there—it would be a stumbling block, if they weren’t. We must not, in false spirituality, withhold our imaginative welcome. If God chooses to be mythopoeic—and is not the sky itself a myth—shall we refuse to be mythopathic?
However, he takes a rather large leap, of faith I guess, in his 'myth becoming fact', and falls into the abyss in his patronizing "Those who do not know that this great myth became Fact when the Virgin conceived are, indeed, to be pitied."

But such is the limit of one who believes there is only a straight line to the truth, one spoke in the Great Wheel, as it were, instead of an infinite number of points on the Wheel itself which all face the same Truth.

Cheers,
Michael
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by Raphael » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

I am curious in the film was the symbolism reversed?

I.e. The bad witch was actually a white witch.

Can you think of any other examples in the film?

namaste

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Post by Clemsy » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Ah but she wasn't 'white' as in 'good', she was 'white' as in 'cold' and 'pale as death'.

Her opposite here isn't black... it's green, no?
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by Raphael » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

So you are suggesting white opposses green and black is the opposite of red?

I have been thinking sometime now on why the 4 elements are sometimes placed in different cardinal aspects. It is indicative I found to lead one to the source of their beliefs. Do you have any thoughts on this?
I believe I might be close to explaining this subtle yet revealing difference in symbolism.
And it is of course related to left hand / right hand path.

namaste



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ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...
God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.

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Post by Vissi » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

I don't know if the following will be of any interest but it was listed on a mythology blog and I was fascinated by the author's detailing of Lewis's conversion and the evolution of his beliefs (with some assistance by his friend, Tolkein):New Yorker article

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Post by Transtar » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

With regaurd the White Witch sybolism, in the first book of the series, "The magician's nephew", Lewis describes the origin of the white (winter) witch. Where she was in a war, and was almost about to lose this war, so she cast a spell which killed all of the people on her planet, so that she could be immortalized into stone, to be awakened by the young boy (who becomes the professor). To me this shows that the white witch removed herself from the cycle of life, and tried to cheat death. Which is why she dispised Aslinn so much, he represented the rebirth of the cycle of life (spring), and the witch wanted to keep everything dead(winter). So for this book i think that the White Witch:Aslinn::Winter:Spring::White:Green. (for those that don't know that format of analogies : = 'is to' and :: = 'as').
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Post by ShantiSong » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Hello all,

I watched Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe yesterday for the first time. I loved it; the potpourri of mythic characters, centaurs, cyclopes, griffins, and such great special effects. The Christian analogy was so straight forward it left me with little to ponder.

But there was one thing that teased my mind and I woke up this morning trying to figure it out. Why was the evil witch white?

It’s not surprising to me that JCF associate, Raphael asked about this. People with an intuitive sense of myth-symbol know that evil witches aren’t suppose to be white, regardless of how reasonable she may be as the goddess of death and winter without Christmas.

Ever since Zarathustra spoke, it has been the lord of light against the lord of darkness. Satan is sometimes called the ‘lord of darkness’. Kali is black. Darth Vader is black.
There’s something twisty going on with a white witch.

There is some chatter on the web of this film having a subtle racist and misogynic touch.

I have a different angle.

I remember reading about James Joyce’s use of the expression, ‘Tower of Ivory’ as referring to the Virgin Mary in Portrait of the Artist. Here is a commentary on this symbolism:
Stephen's train of thought leads him to think about Eileen. Eileen Vance was the little girl that Stephen wanted to marry when he was younger. She is described to have ivory hands and golden hair, which confuses Stephen with the phrases, "Tower of Ivory" and "House of Gold" which is part of the Roman Catholic Litany of Our Lady.

http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=16456
And here is a commentary on Joyce’s use of this symbolism in Ulysses.
The thirteenth episode of Ulysses opens up on Sandymount Strand with Howth Hill in the background and the parish church nearby. The time is 8:00pm and the benediction of the Most Blessed Sacrament is taking place at the church. On the strand Gerty MacDowell, accompanied by her two girl friends and their younger brothers, lies against the rocks listening to "the voice of prayer to her who is in her pure radiance a beacon ever to the storm-tossed heart of man, Mary, star of the sea" (Joyce 346). While the girls frolic about with their brothers, Gerty remains to the side lost in her own thoughts. She is seen as a pure and innocent girl-woman with a face "almost spiritual in its ivory-like purity" (Joyce 348). The words of prayer drifting down the strand and the depiction of Gerty's features create a parallel between Gerty and the Virgin Mary.



The two men see the Virgin maidens as picturesque statues, such as the Virgin Mary might be seen. Just as Nausicaa is depicted as the girl of the white arms, Gerty is repeatedly described as having ivory-like features all of which depict the Tower of Ivory.

http://ksumail.kennesaw.edu/~mglosup/ul ... usicaa.htm
I did not know anything about the man C.S. Lewis and little about his work. But I wondered if the White Witch could be a mythological jab at Catholicism. What I found on the web was astonishing. C.S. Lewis referred to the Catholic Church as ‘Mother Kirk’.
There is, however, little doubt that the first twenty years of C. S. Lewis's life were dominated by the influence of Puritania and by his desire to escape from it. His grandfather, the Reverend Thomas Hamilton, was a clergyman of the Church of Ireland whose view of the Catholic minority in Belfast was colored by the theology of bigotry. Catholics were, in his estimation, the devil's own children, and he I never tired of deprecating the Catholic Church from his pulpit'.

…In summary, Lewis's religious upbringing seems to have been characterized by an inherited anti-Catholicism, whether implicit or explicit.
http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features ... _dec05.asp


Why was he content to remain an Anglican, in a church that at its best is a poor reflection of the Church of Rome?
This question is the burden of Joseph Pearce's C.S. Lewis and the Catholic Church. Pearce's answer, reduced to its essentials, is that Lewis had a blind spot created by a bigoted Ulster Protestant upbringing; despite his exposure to Catholic teaching and the best of Catholics among his friends, he was never able to overcome this prejudice, even on his deathbed. Nor can this spiritual defect be dismissed as a regrettable quirk; it was at the heart of Lewis' life and thought, as fundamental to his being as his goodness and intellectual power.

The more she [Mother Mary representing the Catholic church] puts herself forward as the seat of infallible authority, the more insistent her demands for allegiance, the more she points to her priesthood as the one by which men are saved, the more she claims by powers unique to herself to lay hold on the saints or to trade in the merits of Christ, the more she appropriates of the kingdoms of this world and the glory thereof, the more majestic her dress and bearing, the more lordly her tone, even when expressed in all humility or in the voice of the servant of the servants of Christ (that is, in the lordliest tones of all), the more she insists that she is the arbiter of men's salvation, the more emphatically she asserts that no congregation is valid except as a tributary of herself, the more she equates the actuality of her existence with the Church that is the Bride of Christ and ground and pillar of truth, then the more she looks like an imposter, the more demonic her aspect, the more she appears to be an earthly wraith claiming to be the heavenly reality, the more she looks like a false church, the less she (or Mary magnified within her) looks like our Mother, the more charity one must exercise to love her, and the more one must look within her instead of upon her to find the Church.

Lewis was a very typical Protestant in that he saw an absolute division between the claims of the Roman Church and her reality, the reality belonging only to a Church that is precisely not the Roman (or any other) particular church, and which while it touches upon and runs through this and other churches, is greater than them all. This is why he puts Mother Kirk in shabby dress, because her glory is hidden in her manifestations to us. This is why he was content to remain just what he said he was, a plain Anglican layman, whose church grounded him firmly in mere Christianity, which was for him enough, since it is the best we can do in this world. http://www.ctlibrary.com/bc/2004/novdec/12.30.html
So you see, the white witch is white because she is a false prophet and she is a woman to make the deception even greater – giving her a kindly, motherly persona that in the imagination of C.S. Lewis represents the evil deception and seduction of the Catholic Church. This is how young Edmund is deceived into playing the role of Judas.

Something very twisty indeed.
For such false apostles are deceitful workmen, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light.

-2 Corinthians 11:13-14
Shanti










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Post by Raphael » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

On 2006-02-26 19:43, ShantiSong wrote:

...So you see, the white witch is white because she is a false prophet and she is a woman to make the deception even greater – giving her a kindly, motherly persona that in the imagination of C.S. Lewis represents the evil deception and seduction of the Catholic Church.

Shanti
Is she a false prophet?

I recall how C.P. Snow saw the thermodynamic game.
And it should be noted that these are the 3 Thermodynamic Laws (the study of heat) and they are the over riding rules of the closed Universe.

Please also note it is interesting I should use the 3 Laws of Thermodynamics and a fellow named Snow to explain the white witch. The hot vs. cold, fire vs. water symbolism is actually a metaphor for the thermodynamic axis mundi where we do battle with our inner demons, dragons and witches. Those are the 7 vertical chakras and this is also significant if you also see Mother Earth as also possessing 7 chakras along her North / South axis of polarity.

Here is how British author and scientist C.P. Snow summarized the 3 rules of the Universal game bound by thermodynamics.
1. You cannot win (that is, you cannot get something for nothing, because matter and energy are conserved).
2. You cannot break even (you cannot return to the same energy state, because there is always an increase in disorder; entropy always increases).
3. You cannot get out of the game (because absolute zero is unattainable).
And what did Einstein think about Thermodynamics?

Einstein believed these Laws of science would never be overturned. They were supreme.

And today along with Quantum Mechanics, General Relativity, and Hawking’s Black Hole Radiation, Thermodynamics forms the foundation of unifying the laws of physics, a first step toward Quantum Gravity, the theory of everything.

So if these 3 laws transcend the Universe what is the apparent message of their powerful consistency?

And how do these 3 Laws help explain the White Witch in Narnia?

C.P. Snow suggested we are in a game we cannot win. A game of pursuing eternal mortal life, a game that we cannot win. The first law discusses energy being conserved.
He also proclaims we cannot break even in this game we cannot win. Combined and these two laws are a wonderful metaphor for everyone’s plight here on earth. No one has yet escaped these 2 laws by circumventing death.

“You cannot break even (you cannot return to the same energy state, because there is always an increase in disorder; entropy always increases).”

And entropy we know always goes from a state of minimum to a state of maximum entropy, this fact also establishes ‘Time’s Arrow’, time can only go forward in the Macrocosm, and the laws of Relativity would need to be breached to go backward in Time.
(and that is what they are attempting to do in CERN’s particle accelerators)

There is only one way to get out of the game of Thermodynamics, to slow down the molecular movement, to slow down the processes necessary for life itself, and that is to attain absolute zero or die.

But we are told absolute zero cannot be accomplished. So instead we have periodic ‘Ice Ages’ to help slow down the Thermodynamic expansion of Mother Earth, she is inflamed, not unlike the inflammations that cause man in the microcosm so much pain and suffering. These inflammations have accelerated as a result of man accepting the gift of fire and now having control over the Thermodynamic destiny of the Mother Earth.
We also have reference in our myths to the olive tree, the pomegranate and turmeric, all of which have anti-inflammatory properties to help relieve our microcosmic human pain and suffering.

White is the color of purity and the ‘female’ White Witch is actually appropriate if we remember many of the Goddesses prior to Jesus worship were also depicted as wielding immense powers capable of catastrophic natural calamities.
So the White witch brings with her a purification, a cleansing, she covers the earth with a blanket of frozen water and snow thus helping to reduce the swelling, the inflammation that accompanies expansion, the activities of life itself, the activities of man thus producing a parasitic itch.
I have a geologist friend who observes when you look at the ice ages throughout our evolving earth's history, sped up, they look like a 'scrub brush' scouring the surface. (to remove the parasites no doubt)
Michael observes:

Ah but she wasn't 'white' as in 'good', she was 'white' as in 'cold' and 'pale as death'.
And this would be a wonderful time to remind the reader that the 4th Horseman of the Apocalypse was the 'pale rider'.

There actually is deception thus revealed in C.S. Lewis’ depiction of Aslan who many consider a Jesus archetype. (remember Jesus embodied both good and bad)
Is he a positive Jesus figure or is he the anti-Christ in disquise?
The Lion with the salamander in the Kabbalah are symbols attached to Fire, wands in the South, noble strength and character, the Lion his mane flaming like the rays of the Sun or the flames emanating from the light within. He thus becomes a messenger of light not unlike Prometheus who stole fire as a gift for mankind.
Remember Winter represents death and is the element Earth in the Kabbalah.
Spring represents Fire and is the spark, the intiation of life, the Yod.
Life commences once more.

So the return of Aslan marked the return of spring (a prolonged winter I assumed to be analogous to an ice age) , everything quickly bloomed before our very eyes on the screen.
Conveying to the viewer, wrongly I might add, winter / Witch was bad and spring / Aslan is good.
Here we have a reinforcing of the good vs. evil stereotype again failing to acknowledge the necessity of having Winter and Witches.

But here allow me to introduce a sublime fact.

Carbon 12 is an element that all living matter needs to function, in order to continue living.
Carbon 12 is 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons.
Yup LIFE itself is the metaphorical 666.

Would not a 'balance' between all life be necessary to manifest a Garden of Eden?
Or should one lifeform claim dominance over all others?

So Aslan and a thriving lifeforce reveals itself perhaps as the anti-Christ and if we do not heed the rules of the Thermodynamic game the ‘unavoidable’ punishment has been spelled out for us and it will arrive sooner than later. Life consumes life is a fact.
Life must be continually striving for a thermodynamic balance…and does this therefore help explain the role of meditation, discipline or the term ‘chill out’?

So in conclusion the Goddess once deposed is our Mother Nature and she is also the White Witch representing a necessary purification process and in her we find certainly a creation / destruction aspect that appears as a cyclical event and profoundly remember everyone in Narnia knew they had a role within the script to be played out in the inevitable evolving process, a game from which apparently there was no escape.
It was not viewed as necessarily evil, just necessary. Not unlike the 'polarities', in opposition, the Yin Yang.
The Shaman takes us one step closer to unity, they do not even acknowledge a positive / negative aspect, or duality, everything is just the way it is, the way it was meant to be...

And finally what is the purpose of a Game that we cannot possibly win or even manage a draw, that we are destined to lose and there is no escaping the Game?

Or can we?

Can we continually exit the closet and re-enter the macrocosmic world or vice-versa?

You see I believe they stepped into their inner temples, they entered the microcosmic universe when they entered that closet. There they each faced and overcame their individual demons allowing each to become worthy of royal stature.

I would like to at this time, introduce and acknowledge the element of TIME which I would like to propose as the 4th Law of Thermodynamics.

It thus states ... 'what Matters to Energy / God is not whether you win or lose its HOW you play the game'.

And the 'Game' begins now for each of us, a game you can play by yourself, in a cave or a closet, an inner temple of your design.

Namaste

Raphael


_________________
ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...
God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raphael on 2006-03-20 19:22 ]</font>
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Post by Billeen » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Thank you, Raphael, for that lesson in physics and for putting down what really ticks me off about the Narnia Chronicles.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adored the series as a kid, and now. I've read them dozens of times, given them as gifts to all sorts of little boys and girls and am in the process of reading them to my eight year old daughter.

The movie was spectacular, straight along with the movie, and I loved it, too. Especially the battle scene when the witch zapped one griffon and turned the next one into stone. I said to my daughter, "Wow, she's tough!" She replied, "She's RUTHLESS!"

And here's crux (no pun intended), I think good ol' CS isn't promoting Christianity so much as he's promoting "family values" along the monotheistic and patriarchal and lines. The White Witch, Jadus, all through his book represents cruelty, greed, capriciousness, and evil.

Jadus is the first to defy Aslan in The Magician's Nephew, throwing the iron piece of lampost at him that bounces harmlessly off and grows into the lampost. She was awakened and brought to the primordial Narnia by Digory and Polly, Narnia's Adam and Eve, and succored by the bad Magician who himself was from questionable, but powerful, ancestry. An early Satan, I suppose.

The TLTW&TW, Jadus is the ruling Queen, keeping everything frozen in stasis and ruling by false promises, phantom gifts, and seduction. We know how that plays out. Aslan comes along with the help of his heroes and heroines and destroys her. Keep in mind that in the movie when Santa hands out his gifts that "battles are unpleasant places" line was originally, "Battles are no place for girls" and Santa admonishes both Lucy and Susan not to engage in any fighting.

The Horse and His Boy seems to be an allegory for poor converts struggling to get out of the evil land of their birth and into the riteousness of Narnia. The horse, a talking Narnia horse kidnapped in his youth, leads his boy a local, out of a very Middle Easternish landscape complete with Sultans and a fiery and seemingly violent diety.

Prince Caspian features the Pevensey children freeing the rightful Prince of Narnia from the influence of a foreign magician.

The Voyage of the Dawn Treader is an evangelical tale of Edmund and Lucy and their spoiled cousin Eustace sailing East to meet Aslan's father.

The book that we shouldn't forget is The Silver Chair. The baddy in this one is a GREEN witch who changes herself into a SERPENT and holds a prince captive. The heroes are Eustace and Pol, Eustace's school mate as they attend one of those terrible schools where boys and girls go together. The children free the prince from his enchantment and the prince lops the serpent's head off.

The Last Battle is almost straight down the line Revelations with a jackass under the influence of an evil and conniving ape pretending to be Aslan by wearing the skin of a dead lion.

The series of books are not an "allegory for the happenings in Heaven" as I've read, or even so much a retelling of Christian metaphors. The books seem to be metaphors for the EARTHLY story of Christianity. C.S. seems to be retelling the history of Christianity, codifying and mythologizing it for the consumption of children.

Think how much easier it is for a Christian child to accept the often violent evangelizing within a faith that is supposedly ruled by the Prince of Peace. Think how much easier it is for them to accept the vilification of a MOTHER Goddess when the bad "guy," more often than not is a gal (see Disney for that as well).

The constant, if gentle, chiding of all the girls in C.S.'s books to be... proper, girlish, umm... to know their place, is a bit annoying, as well. Polly, Susan, Lucy, and Pol, all have their pridefull and "manly" little faults that are admonished by thier male counterparts and the auther. Even Lucy the Valiant, is reminded that her valiance is only worth something if big brother Peter goes along with it.

Phew! All that being said, I still adore the series. I just try very deliberately to balance what I percieve as the negative messages with history and some good ol' Old Testament bashing. There is nothing like coupling the Diary of Anne Frank with the story of Joshua and The Battle of Jericho or Gilgamesh and Sildura with Elijah and Jezabel to salt a child's awareness.


Billeen
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:44 am
Location: Anchor Point, AK

Post by Billeen » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Thank you, Raphael, for that lesson in physics and for putting down what really ticks me off about the Narnia Chronicles.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adored the series as a kid, and now. I've read them dozens of times, given them as gifts to all sorts of little boys and girls and am in the process of reading them to my eight year old daughter.

The movie was spectacular, straight along with the movie, and I loved it, too. Especially the battle scene when the witch zapped one griffon and turned the next one into stone. I said to my daughter, "Wow, she's tough!" She replied, "She's RUTHLESS!"

And here's crux (no pun intended), I think good ol' CS isn't promoting Christianity so much as he's promoting "family values" along the monotheistic and patriarchal and lines. The White Witch, Jadus, all through his book represents cruelty, greed, capriciousness, and evil.

Jadus is the first to defy Aslan in The Magician's Nephew, throwing the iron piece of lampost at him that bounces harmlessly off and grows into the lampost. She was awakened and brought to the primordial Narnia by Digory and Polly, Narnia's Adam and Eve, and succored by the bad Magician who himself was from questionable, but powerful, ancestry. An early Satan, I suppose.

The TLTW&TW, Jadus is the ruling Queen, keeping everything frozen in stasis and ruling by false promises, phantom gifts, and seduction. We know how that plays out. Aslan comes along with the help of his heroes and heroines and destroys her. Keep in mind that in the movie when Santa hands out his gifts that "battles are unpleasant places" line was originally, "Battles are no place for girls" and Santa admonishes both Lucy and Susan not to engage in any fighting.

The Horse and His Boy seems to be an allegory for poor converts struggling to get out of the evil land of their birth and into the riteousness of Narnia. The horse, a talking Narnia horse kidnapped in his youth, leads his boy a local, out of a very Middle Easternish landscape complete with Sultans and a fiery and seemingly violent diety.

Prince Caspian features the Pevensey children freeing the rightful Prince of Narnia from the influence of a foreign magician.

The Voyage of the Dawn Treader is an evangelical tale of Edmund and Lucy and their spoiled cousin Eustace sailing East to meet Aslan's father.

The book that we shouldn't forget is The Silver Chair. The baddy in this one is a GREEN witch who changes herself into a SERPENT and holds a prince captive. The heroes are Eustace and Pol, Eustace's school mate as they attend one of those terrible schools where boys and girls go together. The children free the prince from his enchantment and the prince lops the serpent's head off.

The Last Battle is almost straight down the line Revelations with a jackass under the influence of an evil and conniving ape pretending to be Aslan by wearing the skin of a dead lion.

The series of books are not an "allegory for the happenings in Heaven" as I've read, or even so much a retelling of Christian metaphors. The books seem to be metaphors for the EARTHLY story of Christianity. C.S. seems to be retelling the history of Christianity, codifying and mythologizing it for the consumption of children.

Think how much easier it is for a Christian child to accept the often violent evangelizing within a faith that is supposedly ruled by the Prince of Peace. Think how much easier it is for them to accept the vilification of a MOTHER Goddess when the bad "guy," more often than not is a gal (see Disney for that as well).

The constant, if gentle, chiding of all the girls in C.S.'s books to be... proper, girlish, umm... to know their place, is a bit annoying, as well. Polly, Susan, Lucy, and Pol, all have their pridefull and "manly" little faults that are admonished by thier male counterparts and the auther. Even Lucy the Valiant, is reminded that her valiance is only worth something if big brother Peter goes along with it.

Phew! All that being said, I still adore the series. I just try very deliberately to balance what I percieve as the negative messages with history and some good ol' Old Testament bashing. There is nothing like coupling the Diary of Anne Frank with the story of Joshua and The Battle of Jericho or Gilgamesh and Sildura with Elijah and Jezabel to salt a child's awareness.


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