He Wonders

Who was Joseph Campbell? What is a myth? What does "Follow Your Bliss" mean? If you are new to the work of Joseph Campbell, this forum is a good place to start.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

Waka
Associate
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:29 am
Location: somewere lost

Post by Waka » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Prisioned in his paved cities, blinfoled by his impulses and necessities, man tends to disregard the system of nature in which he stands. It is only at infrequent moments when he finds himslef beneath the stars,or in a moonlit meadow or on a foreign shore, that he comtemplates the natural world-and he wonders.
Think about it and look up.
Better than a thousand useless words is one word that gives peace.- Buddha<br>Let yourself be free. :-)
User avatar
nandu
Associate
Posts: 3395
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:45 am
Location: Kerala, the green country
Contact:

Post by nandu » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am


I never saw a man who looked
With such a wistful eye
Upon that little tent of blue
Which prisoners call the sky,
And at every drifting cloud that went
With sails of silver by.

- "The Ballad of Reading Gaol" by Oscar Wilde
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu
NathanGear
Associate
Posts: 257
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:09 am

Post by NathanGear » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Waka,

Last week I went to pay respects to this guy:

http://www.nps.gov/seki/shrm_pic.htm
Waka
Associate
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:29 am
Location: somewere lost

Post by Waka » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Its a beautiful tree but not quite sure about the name. lol

One thing I try to do every onve in a while it to take it all in. Go out side and look up and wonder.
Better than a thousand useless words is one word that gives peace.- Buddha<br>Let yourself be free. :-)
Raphael
Associate
Posts: 724
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:44 pm
Location: SPACETIME

Post by Raphael » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

On 2006-06-01 09:54, Waka wrote:
Its a beautiful tree but not quite sure about the name. lol

One thing I try to do every onve in a while it to take it all in. Go out side and look up and wonder.
Waka did we not stop looking up when they put the movements of the Cosmos, the macrocosmic clock onto our wrists?

We went from a purpose, what beings should be doing to beings being told what to do.

namaste

Raphael
ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...<br>God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.
Waka
Associate
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:29 am
Location: somewere lost

Post by Waka » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

With the first post I just wanted to emphazies the awesome system that is nature.
NathanGear
Associate
Posts: 257
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:09 am

Post by NathanGear » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Waka,

Are you going camping this summer?


Waka
Associate
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:29 am
Location: somewere lost

Post by Waka » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

NathanGear, I might not be going camping this summer. I really dont have a plan for summer so I will see what happens. BUT last summer I did. Well I really didnt camp but I got away to a very small town in Idaho where my aunt has a cabin. There was no phone, and no tv. All that my dad and I had was music and books and the outdoors. We also went to a hugemungous lake. Lake McCall I think. And at night I went out and looked up; it seems like I could see every star. Now where I live there is little light polution, but when I was out there I could see everything. I have never seen so many dots in the sky. Plus one side of the cabin is all windows so the light comes in really great. So one morning I woke up real early becuase of the light. The sun wasn't even up yet. So I decided to sit on my favortie chair there. I looked out the windwos that were facing east and I saw the sun rise between two mountians. It was GREAT. I have never been so relaxed in my life then when I was up there. Also when my dad and I were driving up there I saw things you only see in books. We went up some trail and saw a glaciar vally. It was amazaing. The vally was a big U and near the vally was a little very cold brooke that we stoped at. I got to go in the water and just sit there. Nobody else was there. It was just me and my dad and mother earth. Its the stuff you would see in the National Geographic magazine. It was outstanding with little purple wild flowers. OHHH It was grand. It couldn't get any better.

So yeah I would love to go camping this summer, but I am looking for a job so...
Better than a thousand useless words is one word that gives peace.- Buddha<br>Let yourself be free. :-)
ShantiSong
Associate
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:45 am

Post by ShantiSong » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Nathan,

On the eastern side of the Sierras, where the high dry desert meets the mountains, some people make a pilgrimage to pay homage to another famous tree. It is a sacred tree. In fact, so sacred, the US forest service refuses to give its exact location in order to protect it.

It’s not a very pretty tree as trees go, but it has acquired a reputation with age. It happens that when this tree was a seedling King Gilgamesh was ruler of Uruk in Babylonia, 2700 BCE.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/methuselah/
Billeen
Associate
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:44 am
Location: Anchor Point, AK

Post by Billeen » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Shanti, just checked out the Methuselah website. That's just amazing. I just took an intro Geology class last semester. I feel like I can see THROUGH the Earth now. Alaska is a very confusing place to learn geology, but definitely not boring. It is humbling to consider our importance to the planet. We are a fleeting annoyance. At best. Like little mosquitoes.

I feel bad for people who spend their lives in urban or sub-urban environments. I'm checking in to the conversation after a long absence and every thread has seemed to long for a connection to the dirt.

I'd like to blame the industrial revolution, but probably agriculture (as opposed to small scale horticulture) and centralized government is to blame for taking people off the land and into the cities. Civilization isn't necessarily a "bad" thing (I do so love my internet), but... it's been 4000 years or so. We out to be able to figure out a balance.

Right now our area is experiencing sort of a takeover that rural areas have seen in our country since the early 1800's. Land is being bought up by groups of investors and wealthy individuals for recreational purposes. Much of our area is Federal, State, or Burrough (county) property and very little is incorporated into a city or township. Some fast dealing sees land that was previously prime hunting and fishing grounds turned into some dude's private "estate," a future golf course, or an RV park.

This buy up is "good for the economy" because it raises property value and brings in tax revenues but us poor peasants are no longer allowed to take the King's Moose (or salmon, or clams, or trees), if you know what I mean. Just like the beginnings of... Brooklynn (?) or many other wealthy suburban areas, the rich move in and drive the poor into the cities looking for work. Its a major thing... a global trend, I think.

I live on a 200 foot, or thereabouts, bluff overlooking Cook Inlet. We have access to our property below our house (to the mean high-tide mark) on foot down the slope if one is feeling adventerous. Mostly we park or camp down there by accessing a state-maintained road half a mile up the highway, then drive a beach trail back down to the property. Last summer some new property owners decided to erect a 6 foot high driftwood fence across the ATV trail and reinforce it with steel rebar. The only way to get to our properties now is at low tide. The ATV trail is a State easement protected for emergency vehicles and shared among property owners.

To have an "outsider" (wealthy former Montanans) become an ignorant bear-baiting neighbor is an annoyance, but ignorance can be rectified. To watch that neighbor strip vegitation off of his bluff is amusing because he will no longer be a neighbor in one or two seasons. To have that neighbor be so inconsiderate as to deny the rest of us access to our beach property is frustrating beyond belief because none of us little peasants has the financial wherewithal to "sue" or whatever it is people do in these situations. Deisel and a match has been the best solution to this fence I've heard. And the least violent.

My point with this story is the trend in our culture for developing the places that I hear people crying for. These folks from Montana moved to our little corner of the world to get away from crowding, fences, and having to mind their P's and Q's. The first thing that they do is clear their property (and cause horrible soil erosion), create nuisance bear with their irresponsible trash lack-of-disposal, and create a whole bunch of enemies with a fence that seems to stand for everything we hate about people. (Alaska is full of mysanthropes.) My family has been here, living peacably with our neighbors, for a hundred years. Suddenly we have an old fashioned "range war" on our hands.

So what's the answer? What would Joe do? Joe would definitely find the situation humorous. Here are a group of people argueing over land and access to land. Here are a group of people playing out an old drama. My only consolation, I suppose, is that the land doesn't really care all that much what happens. It will maintain. It will endure. Long after the rest of us have destroyed ourselves through ignorance and greed.
NathanGear
Associate
Posts: 257
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:09 am

Post by NathanGear » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Have you talked to your neighbor? Or does he just blow off your advice?

Suburbia certinaly has its minuses but it can have its pluses too. Yeah we aren't in nature, but those who like it can find it reletively easy. (The worse off are those who live in the cities, cause they have a further distance to go to get into nature. Suburbia is the middle ground.) As your neighbor exemplifies, many people don't belong anywhere close to nature. Suburbia is a perfect place to keep these types of people so they don't do harm.


Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

There's something so refreshing about surrounding yourself with nature. It's kind of like returning to where your material and spiritual bodies originated. Like going back home after a long time away.

I recently went on a trip around the Limpopo , which is the northern province of South Africa. This is where I got to lay beneath the stars for hours in pitch darkness, marvelling at the glitter of the night sky.

And I had the privelege of visiting, apparently, the biggest Baobab tree in the world, situated on a farm. Ripley's considered it the oldest living thing in the world.

Apart from all the records, which are trivial, the Baobab in these parts of Africa holds something sacred for the Venda community. To the Vendas it has mythological significance.

They are not even allowed to pluck the fruit off the tree.

Unfortunately this baobab has become a major international tourist attraction. It was discovered to have a hollow section inside the trunk and thus, the owners of the farm decided to turn it into a little pub, unfortunately. As if ridiculing its importance. Plus they have quad bike racing nearby, which is evidence of human interference again.

Below is an excerpt of a travel story I did for South African tourism about the Baobab tree and some of its myths:

Another part of Limpopo that can get a tourist in frenzy, especially closet tree huggers, is the Sunland farm in Go-Modjaji where the biggest Baobab tree in the world resides. The baobab has been proclaimed in “Ripley’s Believe It Or Not” as being the oldest living thing in the world at nearly six thousand years of age. It’s a colossus on its own towering above people and bulky in its width. Wonderful as a chapter out of the Lord of the Rings saga is the stumps of wood surrounding the campfire setting situated near the tree. What is astonishing is when the caretaker, Anna Anahasha steps up to a door situated on the tree and opens it. She walks in and invites visitors inside. It makes you really feel like a hobbit once you enter. But instead of a home, visitors would find a pub that fits about sixty people in it. The thought of enjoying a beer inside a tree trunk can get any patron excited. However, the ambiance killer at the baobab’s pub is when they become over zealous.
“People drink and the men lose respect for women. Drinking is not a good thing. It makes people do bad things,” said Anna. It is obvious that she has had to witness beer breathed men trying to make their way with gorgeous ladies. And her sturdiness could be from many nights trying to halt a brawl or protecting girls from intoxicated young men.
The myth of the baobab being a tree that grows upside down stems back to the Bushmen era. The baobab offended God whose vengeance made Him plant the tree upside down, with the roots facing the sky. They also believe that the flowers that bloom from its stems house a spirit. If they were plucked by anybody, lions would maul the person who did it. This explains the reason why the flowers only spruce at night. And if you happen to drink water where baobab seeds had been soaked, then you will become strong enough to tackle a crocodile.
But it is no myth as to how the bar in the tree came about. In 1990, a married couple, Doug and Heather van Heerden, bought the Sunland farm and when they carved the tree, they found it to be hollow inside. They then installed electricity and designed it into a bar. Despite the human interference, the tree continues to live normally growing its leaves during springtime and producing the hairy fruit that itches the skin when touched. The appearance of the fruit has also earned the tree the name “Dead Rat Tree”.
It is no wonder that such a large province as the Limpopo has not established a bustling city as Johannesburg. If that happens, many of its natural wonders, its history and its people will be stuck within an artificial timeline, being just another record in the books.


Here is a site with some neat pictures and facts about the Baobab tree in Sunland Farm:

http://www.baobab.fhi.co.za/baobab.html


_________________
[email protected]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shamin on 2006-06-09 06:13 ]</font>
ShantiSong
Associate
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:45 am

Post by ShantiSong » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

"Truth is like a baobab tree; one person's arms cannot embrace it"

-African proverb

http://www.africatanzania.com/images/baobab.jpg



While the origin of its name is lost in the many rich legends and myths of Africa, the Baobab is probably the most described tree on the continent. The oldest living Baobab is estimated to be more than 3,000 years old. The Baobab is well known for its magical powers and symbolic value to many indigenous Africa people, as well as its functional usefulness. The Baobab bark is used to make mats, hats, cloth and rope; its fruits are eaten and its wood burnt as fuel.
http://www.readucate.org/pages/Baobab-window.htm



Some are reputed to be many thousands of years old, though as the wood does not produce annual growth rings, this is impossible to verify; few botanists give any credence to these claims of extreme age.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baobab


Baobabs may be the oldest life forms on the African continent, and many of the specimens still standing today have certainly been around since the birth of Christ; others for far longer. Carbon-dating experiments in the Zambezi Valley have calculated that trees with a trunk diameter of five metres were over 1000 years of age, and similar experiments elsewhere have dated trees at over 3000 years. Girth measurements themselves are not reliable estimates of a particular tree's age, as the conditions under which it has grown - and the climatic fluctuations of the centuries - strongly affect this.
http://www.wildwatch.com/resources/plants/baobab.asp


Botanists believe Baobabs may be the oldest life form on the African continent, but Baobab taxonomy is relatively paltry. My research reveals that most Baobabs live in Africa, Madagascar or Australia. There are at least 8 species with 6 endemic to Madagascar. Adansonia digitata lives in Senegal, and it appears to have been first recorded in 1759.
“Adansonia” supposedly for the French surgeon Michel Adanson (1727-1806); “digitata” referring to the hand-like shape of its glossy leaves.

The Adansonia digitata can grow over 80 feet tall and 30 feet wide, with rounded crowns and one or several trunks. Carbon dating estimates that trees with a trunk diameter of 15 feet are about 1000 years old, and similar experiments elsewhere have dated trees at over 3000 years. (But note: girth measurement may not be reliable as the trunks are hollow and may enlarge or shrink, depending on the volume of stored water.)
http://www.acibaobab.org/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=81




The tremendous girth of some African baobabs has led observers to suggest that individual trees can reach an age of several thousand years. Like many large tropical trees, the baobab has no reliable tree rings, and the largest trees aren't necessarily the oldest because variation in water content of the trunk can cause large fluctuations. Adanson, who first attempted age calculations, estimated that two trees on an island off Cape Verde were 5,150 years old. Since those trees have since disappeared it is difficult to know if he was right. According to Wickens, foresters studying trees with diameters exceeding ten meters estimated that they had lived for over 2,000 years. This seems reasonable in view of a confirmed radiocarbon date of just over 1,000 years for a tree 4.5 meters in diameter from a site near the Zambezi River.
http://www.calacademy.org/calwild/1997s ... lives.html



The baobab tree has an enormous trunk with tapering branches and can attain a maximum height of 75 feet and maximum diameter of 60 feet around the trunk. It is also one of the longest lived trees in the world; radio-carbon dating has measured ages of over 2,000 years.
http://arts.osu.edu/ArtEducation/kplayg ... abtree.htm



Up until a few years ago, the world's oldest living tree, a Bristlecone Pine, named the Methuselah was in California. It is approximately 4,600 years old. Now there may be at least two trees that are older.

With John White's refined measurement techniques of today, The Lime tree in the Silkwood at Westonbirt Arboretum (Near Tetbury, Gloucester, U.K.) is probably around 6000 years old.

The Fortingall Yew Tree in Glen Lyon, Perthshire, Scotland, might be as much as 9000 years old. The usual way of calculating a trees age by counting the annual rings in the trunk or by carbon dating, are not accurate when it comes to Yews because a Yews trunk tends to hollow with age, while it continues to grow by rooting its branches and wrapping them around itself. There is even documentation of the formation of aerial roots growing inside the hollow trunk. Another reason are Yews have been known to stop growing for long periods of time, {documented 325 years}, thus having no growth rings for that period.
http://www.sashalacroix.com/sustainable ... facts.html
Shamin,

Ripley’s believe it or not? In this case I’d rather not. There are no tree rings to count in a Baobab. And from what I know about carbon dating, the object of study must have died long ago in order to estimate its time of death. Once something dies its ratio of carbon-14 to other carbon isotopes begins to change. Perhaps there is 5000 year old dead matter on a Baobab, but the wide range of dates I found on the web makes me think they really can’t date these old beauties accurately.

But what a magnificent tree. I thought we were strange in California to make living trees into tunnels – but a pub – that’s really something.

I don’t know what it is about trees that tug at our heart so. Maybe it’s because way back in our evolution we used to live in trees and unconsciously we still re-cognize our home.
I recently went on a trip around the Limpopo, which is the northern province of South Africa. This is where I got to lay beneath the stars for hours in pitch darkness, marveling at the glitter of the night sky.

-Shamin
Billeen mentioned ignorant bear baiters who visit and sometimes move to Alaska. I just wondered how safe camping is in Limpopo with so many animals. Are nature lovers ever attacked?

<> <> <> <> <>
The ATV trail is a State easement protected for emergency vehicles and shared among property owners.

-Billeen
I don’t really get it. If the trail is jointly owned or publicly owned why do they get to build a gate on it? It’s not their private property. There is something odd about living in such a sparsely populated state and still having these kinds of problems.

I think of where I live, Reno, NV as barely making is as a city with a population of 340,000. I looked up the population of Anchorage and it’s less than 300,000. I would expect Alaska would be the friendliest place on earth.<IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif">

Shanti






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShantiSong on 2006-06-10 00:29 ]</font>
NathanGear
Associate
Posts: 257
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:09 am

Post by NathanGear » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

my story concept:

Jesus said he'd return, but he didn't say as what. It was just assumed he'd return in human form, but low and behold he comes back to Earth in the form of a tree in a forest threatened to be bulldozed down. The irony is he/the tree is being defended by a group of aetheist environmentalists. The organization that paid to have the forest felled is actually a Christian organization. They want the wood for paper so they can print a book about how the environmental movement has gone too far as impeding the nation's god-given right to development and 'progress'.
creekmary
Associate
Posts: 654
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:13 am
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Post by creekmary » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Ahhh...property rights and grabby outsiders....

If it's a State road with easement (if it was me...) I would first talk to the State road people and complain about the lack of access and denial of their (the State's) easement for emergency whatever and get them to start backing you or running front line interference enforcing their right.

If it's just plain old regular easement, you can't be denied reasonable access to your property even if it crosses through theirs, if that is the only or best way to get to yours. It shouldn't cost a lawyer much to advise you and just write him a letter so everybody can pretend he is just ignorant and nice instead of a grabby jerk.

Dad's saying - "Some people are like an old jackass. It takes a 2 by 4 between the eyes before you get their attention."

How far out into the ocean do they think they own? I usually figure I own my land halfway down to china and as far up as I can shoot. I never thought about shoreline out. He might start a trend.....

Are there any Game Ranger type people who can call on them and educate them about the wildlife before they get bold and do more than disturb the shrubbery?

Susan
Locked