Well boy do I resemble that remark, a jack of all trades and a master of none.On 2006-01-07 05:00, ritske wrote:
Another point. It seems probable that Wilber's understanding of Buddhism leaves something to be a desired, as you claim. Obviously, as someone whose name I've forgotten already pointed out earlier in this thread, Wilber can't have read everything - he's a generalist, and writing the sort of stuff he writes requires wide reading. As Bertrand Russell put it in the preface to his 'History of Western Philosophy':
If, however, books covering a wide field are to be written at all, it is inevitable, since we are not immortal, that those who write such books should spend less time on any one part than can be spent by a man who concentrates on a single author or a brief period.
I am about to dispel the myth that acquired knowledge, a phd or a masters is the road to salvation.
I would however suggst it reflects the degree of your indocrination. It is not difficult to line up experts on either side of an issue.
Many people actually believe you can purchase an epiphany.
I have not read any of Wilbur’s work yet why does my ‘Creation Template’ fit very nicely over Ken Wilbur’s Work, like an overhead transparency.Let us discuss, therefore, Wilber's GENERAL argument: the perennial philosophy. Do you think such a thing exists? In other words, can we make such general statements as Wilber makes, and come to conclude that mystics of all times and places had - roughly - the same kind of experience?
Here is how Wilber himself describes the essence of the perennial philosophy:
"One, Spirit exists, and Two, Spirit is found within. Three, most of us don't realize this Spirit within, however, because we are living in a world of sin, separation and duality— that is, we are living in a fallen or illusory state. Four, there is a way out of this fallen state of sin and illusion, there is a Path to our liberation. Five, if we follow this Path to its conclusion, the result is a Rebirth or Enlightenment, a direct experience of Spirit within, a Supreme Liberation, which—Six—marks the end of sin and suffering, and which—Seven— issues in social action of mercy and compassion on behalf of all sentient beings
quoted in: 'Ken Wilber, thought as passion', by Frank Visser, p. 50
Note: the Creation Template I worked out only correlates to Wilburs’ first four steps because I had not completed counting past four. Five was the next logical number I was to study.
Let us compare how my cosmogony, the blending of symbols, myth, math, science and religion compares with Wilbur’s conclusions shall we?
I arrived at my conclusions using a similar approach Wilbur apparently did…covering a wide field of inquiry, drawing from many different sources.
Here is what I wrote on another thread and I am talking in reference to the Ten Commandments.
And then in that very same thread I mention another interesting discovery worthy of a Dan Brown novel or perhaps even initiating the same controversy as finding Yitzhak Rabin’s assassination mentioned in the Bible Code.The first four steps or Commandmnets are a progression through the dimensions. 1D>2D>3D>4D
1 > 1D is one particle ... O (The Creator is mentioned) Wilbur … One, Spirit exists
2 > 2D is two particles joined by a Wave (Duality, a splitting is implied. Look for twins or the mention of two things occurring) Wilbur … Two, Spirit is found within
3 > 3D is three particles forming a Triangle ... SPACE is created (look for a ‘place’ taking shape where the story will take form) Wilbur … Three, most of us don't realize this Spirit within, however, because we are living in a world of sin, separation and duality— that is, we are living in a fallen or illusory state.
4 > 4D is four particles forming a square or tetrahedron ... SPACETIME is created (look for a reference to TIME, it is also the ‘crucial’ step that deals with redemption or the appearance of a 'Messiah', the Christ consciousness. A cleansing occurs. Wilbur … Four, there is a way out of this fallen state of sin and illusion, there is a Path to our liberation.
In theology the first Four Commandments were inscribed on the 1st Tablet and they represent Man's relationship to God.
The remaining six Commandments are on the 2nd Tablet and they represent Man's relationship to his fellow Man.
So essentially ‘The Creation Template’ is the first tablet of stone, is it not?
Who do we have to thank for the SPACETIME concept I ask?
Einstein translated means essentially ‘One Stone’.
Thus the first Tablet of Stone representing the Creation Template has been used the world over. It is embodied by Pythagoras’ Tetractys, his concept of the entire Universe being represented by those 4 numbers. Pythagoras in the cave also dwelled, meditated on the concept of the microcosm and macrocosm.
So Einstein's SPACETIME formula E = Mcc is inscribed on ‘One Stone’
The following is a quote from Painted Owl on another thread. Remember there are no conincidences..."Einstein said he thought in images,and only later tried to communicate his ideas in words for others.He would sit in a relaxed state,holding a small stone in his hand,so when he reached the edge of dropping off to sleep the stone would drop from his hand and wake him.I do not know if this is relative to the topic at hand or not."
Moses I might add also had a habit of dropping stones.
Go here for the entire thread:
http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic. ... 2&forum=27
Since writing that thread I have made more discoveries.
In continuing with my interpretation of the Ten Commandments energetically, I believe
Commandment 5 is Thermodynamics … all three laws of thermodynamics are beautifully encapsulated quite simply.
Honor thy father (the cosmic sun) and thy mother (the elemental earth) so that thy days may be long upon the earth.
And Commandments 6-10 at this point I would suggest interpreting using Quantum Gravity.
I would suggest the ‘Chosen’ amongst us have a different experience.In other words, when a Zen monk has a satori experience, is he experiencing the same thing as a Hindu ascetic or a Meister Eckehart, as Wilber claims? (I'm not saying here that Wilber claims that all mystic experiences are the same - he does make distinctions. I don't want to get bogged down in the technicalities of Wilber's framework, though, to keep this discussion clear).
However I must believe that most of us experience pretty much the same thing.
Now I present to you a concept for a graven image society, a concept whose time has come …’marketing different designer religions based on them offering a different experience’…guaranteed or your money back!
Same thing could be said about Campbell or even me.Another point: I feel we should make distinctions between Wilber's earlier books and his later books. Wilber's first book- The spectrum of consciousness- just isn't very good (at least not in my opinion). He wrote it when he was very young, and we could say that the man has almost had to grow up in public. This is reflected by the fact that wilber himself now no longer endorses the views in the earlier books - he has moved on, although not everyone realises this. Do you feel Wilber's recent books also contain factual errors, or is it just the earlier books you take issue with?
It is not unlike the chaotic activity of quantum particles eventually manifested into an order, so must the thoughts of the mind be arranged.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raphael on 2006-01-12 18:04 ]</font>