The Mandala and Chakras

Who was Joseph Campbell? What is a myth? What does "Follow Your Bliss" mean? If you are new to the work of Joseph Campbell, this forum is a good place to start.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

User avatar
ALOberhoulser
Associate
Posts: 2952
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2002 6:00 am
Location: Delphi
Contact:

Post by ALOberhoulser » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

My favorite Campbell lecture is the one where he addresses the chakras from the Tibetan BOTD.

I was thinking about the significnce of the mandala at each different chakra. Campbell explained the Eastern symbols kind of quickly...I'm not sure if there is a print version of the entire lecture.

My question is this: Are there pre-Jungian mandalas? Didn't Jung's take on the mandala influence the way it's interpreted world-wide?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ALOberhoulser on 2003-02-05 23:12 ]</font>
User avatar
ALOberhoulser
Associate
Posts: 2952
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2002 6:00 am
Location: Delphi
Contact:

Post by ALOberhoulser » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

This applies to my question:
This could well be regarded as Nature's humor for so large a universe to be built up of such minute entities. Things are stretched unimaginably both in the large and in the small, as if to baffle the human mind. One may wonder if we could have a universe more modest in size with atoms somewhat larger to cope with?. Perhaps we could, but it would be nothing like the one we happen to be in.
http://www.metanexus.net/archives/messa ... IVEID=7834
That's why I think this mandala business is so important; they seem to represent that which is so rare and how we're part of it.
Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

AL, The Power of Myth book has a 16 page, color photographic center section on mandalas, all of them pre-Jungian.

Mandalas are featured from around the world, from many cultures, times, and religions.

Campbell discusses mandalas on pages 216-17 of the same book, but he doesn't relate it to the Tibetan Book of the Dead. You might find that in Transformations of Myth Through Time (which I loaned out to someone and never got back. Dang it!)


User avatar
ALOberhoulser
Associate
Posts: 2952
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2002 6:00 am
Location: Delphi
Contact:

Post by ALOberhoulser » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

I was talking about the video of TOMTT.

Re. pre-Jung mandalas...was there a theory that Jung based his interpretation on? Campbell's interpretation was Jungian, right? I should have said "pre-Jungian interpretations"...sorry.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ALOberhoulser on 2003-02-06 01:22 ]</font>
Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Here's a link that talks about different uses and interpretations of Mandalas, including Jung's. You may find it helpful in answering your questions.

http://www.earth-mandala.com/e-mandala.html

Here's a Campbell quote from p. 216 of PoM that acknowledges pre-Jungian ideas about Mandalas.
"Mandala" is a Sanskrit word for "circle," but a circle that is coordinated or symbolically designed so that it has the meaning of a cosmic order. When composing mandalas, you are trying to coordinate your personal circle with the universal circle. In a very elaborate Buddhist mandala, for example, you have the diety in the center as the power source, the illumination source. The peripheral images would be manifestations or aspects of the deity's radiance."
On the first page of the Mandala section of PoM it says, "The whole world is a circle. All of these circular images reflect the psyche."

Jung became fascinated with the Mandala while studying Eastern Religion. Campbell studied the circle motif from all around the world, from Tibetan Buddhists to American Navajos to the Rose Window at Chartres. These circle motifs preceeded Jung by hundreds of years. Jung saw the mandala as an archetype for Wholeness of the Self.

Here are some links to sites about Jung and Mandalas. They have great links to other mandala sites.

http://oldworldsbazaar.com/IK1_jung.html

http://www.netreach.net/~nhojem/jung.htm
I had to abandon the idea of the superordinate position of the ego. ... I saw that everything, all paths I had been following, all steps I had taken, were leading back to a single point -- namely, to the mid-point. It became increasingly plain to me that the mandala is the centre. It is the exponent of all paths. It is the path to the centre, to individuation.

... I knew that in finding the mandala as an expression of the self I had attained what was for me the ultimate.

- C. G. Jung. Memories, Dreams, Reflections.

I hope these links are helpful.




David_Kudler
Working Associate
Posts: 924
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2001 5:03 am
Location: Mill Valley, California
Contact:

Post by David_Kudler » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

BTW, Campbell's most thorough examination of the symbology of the circle (and the mandala in particular) can be found in The Mythic Image. If I remember correctly, there is an entire section of the book that explores this Elementargedanke.

Also, he discusses the symbols for the cakras in Inner Reaches of Outer Space and in the soon-to-be released Myths of Light: Eastern Metaphors of the Eternal.

_________________
David Kudler
Publishing Director
Joseph Campbell Foundation
publications at jcf dot org
(take out the spaces and replace the "at" with "@" and the "dot" with ".")

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: david_kudler on 2003-02-10 01:17 ]</font>
User avatar
ALOberhoulser
Associate
Posts: 2952
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2002 6:00 am
Location: Delphi
Contact:

Post by ALOberhoulser » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Thanks for the info you two! I had a more scientific connection in mind...
The relationship beween the Schumann waves (or more precisely, the Earth cavity resonance frequency band plus
the Pc 1 frequency band) is that it occupies the same frequency band as the heart. In particular, when a person enters
a loving state (unconditional gratitude, connection and appreciation), a frequency analysis of the EKG data shows a
very powerful and characteristic harmonic lineup, with peak frequencies in the range 1-30 Hz
http://www.danwinter.com/ekgtree/ekgtree.html, which is not shown in any other emotional or physiological state.

It is also worth mentioning that the research of Lawrence Edwards (The Vortex of Life, Publ Floris, and
http://www.anth.org.uk/NCT/path.htm) showed that the heart’s seven spiral layers of cardiac muscle produce a
seven-fold oscillation in the shape of the ventricles for every heartbeat. Assuming that the heart would ideally
resonate with the Schumann frequencies, then the minimum Schumann frequency of 7.48 Hz (Heart Chakra = 7.8
Hz) gives an “ideal” heartbeat of 64 (67) bpm, with ½ and 2/3 resonances at 32 (33) and 43 (45) bpm. Any
frequency higher than these would correspond to a higher earth cavity resonance frequency. The maximum recorded
non-pathological human heartrate is of the order of 220 bpm (in olympic downhill skiiing), equivalent to an earth
cavity resonance of 25.6 Hz. This clearly places the cardiac muscle cycle exactly in the dominant earth cavity
resonance frequency band (7.48 Hz - 30 Hz) , with a 15% “safety” margin either side.

This begs an interesting question... Do hearts beat at the rate they do because the Earth cavity resonance creates a
pattern they can resonate to, or is the Earth cavity resonance driven by the beating hearts of billions of living beings?
The answer is probably both. There is substantial evidence of the effects of sunspot activity (solar storms) on human
emotions (DREF XXX). What again of the reverse was true... That human thoughts might affect sunspot activity....?
This might seem like sheer madness, were it not for an experiment carried out by Buryl Payne several years ago. He
coordinated peace meditations round the world at specific times during a sunspot activity peak. The result was a
measured simultaneous drop in sunspot activity, with a probability of random occurrence of less than 1 in 10,000.
To buy a copy of the reports online, see http://www.buryl.com/apr/academyhome.html ( “Is the Sun a Concious
Being?” , “The Sun and Humanity: A Giant Biofeedback Loop?” , and “The Global Peace Meditations -The Power
of Thought to Calm the Sun” ).

Scientific research in Russia has demonstrated that many normal components of human tissue, such as albuminous
molecules, DNA, RNA, membrane oscillations, cell component oscillations and enzyme transitions oscillate in the
frequency range 100-1020 Hz. (Extract from Ukranian research by Don Maisch, published somewhere on
http://www.tassie.net.au/emfacts/). Frequencies in the range 5-16 Hz were found to be particularly important, since
the resonant frequencies of major organs such as the brain and heart fall into this range.

Work by Valerie Hunt (http://www.bioenergyfields.org/) completes this picture. Up until recently, the common
wisdom was that neurons could not signal faster than about 2000 Hz. Valerie noted that EM recordings from within
the biofield (i.e. around but not touching the human body) contained data up to 500,000 Hz. This was usually
discarded as noise, but she found patterns in it which appeared to be significant. She contacted a medical
clairvoyant, and calibrated the electromagnetic patterns with “aura colours” - with such a level of repeatability that
she has made a small radio receiver (“Aurameter”) which is capable of making surprisingly accurate diagnoses of
physical, mental, emotional and spiritual wellbeing. Of course her work was criticised, not least because such high
frequencies were considered to have no possible connection with the activity of the brain. Since then, a company in
the US has investigated eye photoreceptor cell mechanisms and found that these cells act as liquid crystal
(electrolytic) semiconductor gates, capable of passing signals at a rate of 500,000 Hz. They also noticed all neurons
have a similar structure, and have been granted US patent #5,946,185 on this biological semiconductor. For a
summary of the implications of this work, see http://www.4colorvision.com/themes.htm

From~ http://www.hummingbird-one.co.uk/pdf/cycles1.pdf
_________________

"Truth is one, but the wise speak of it in many ways" ~Rig Veda Image My kind of music


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ALOberhoulser on 2003-02-13 17:47 ]</font>
gracie
Associate
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:00 am

Post by gracie » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Wow! Thank you, Al. I have printed this thread, in order to understand it as much as my mind can at this time. Can you feel me smiling???

gracie
User avatar
ALOberhoulser
Associate
Posts: 2952
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2002 6:00 am
Location: Delphi
Contact:

Post by ALOberhoulser » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

"You have noticed that everything an Indian does in in a circle, and that is because the Power of the World always works in circles, and everything tries to be round. In the old days when we were a strong and happy people, all our power came to us from the sacred hoop of the nation, and so long as the hoop was unbroken, the people flourished. The flowering tree was the living center of the hoop, and the circle of the four quarters nourished it. The east gave peace and light, the south gave warmth, the west gave rain, and the north with its cold and mighty wind gave strength and endurance. This knowledge came to us from the outer world with our religion. Everything the Power of the World does is done in a circle. The sky is round, and I have heard that the earth is round like a ball, and so are all the stars. The wind, in its greatest power, whirls. Birds make their nests in circles, for theirs is the same religion as ours. The sun comes forth and goes down again in a circle. The moon does the same, and both are round. Even the seasons form a great circle in their changing, and always come back again to where the were. The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in everything where power moves. Our teepees were round like the nests of birds, and these were always set in a circle, the nation's hoop, a nest of many nests, where the Great Spirit meant for us to hatch our children."

Black Elk Speaks, John G. Neihardt, University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln and London, 1932, 1961, 1979.

http://www.spiritwalk.org/blackelk.htm
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ALOberhoulser on 2003-02-13 21:11 ]</font>
Calaf
Associate
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Anchorage, AK

Post by Calaf » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Responding quickly to the original post of this thread:
There are MOST DEFINITELY pre-Jungian mandalas. Jung grabbed what he thought was a fitting idea from among Buddhist tradition. The Tibetan Buddhists use the Mandala in a particularly important way which is not any different now than it was long before Jung hit the scene. There is a book, published by Shambhala, called The Mandala, which I strongly suggest.
"Dharma is the best thing for people, both in this life and in the next."<br>-The Buddha, from the Agganna Sutra
Ted
Associate
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 5:00 am
Location: California
Contact:

Post by Ted » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

<B>Mandorla

not mandala;

togetherness,

not wholeness.

The Mandorla, a symbol that is all but unknown today. It was used during the times of medieval Christianity. It is an ancient symbol of two circles coming together, overlapping one another to form an almond shape in the middle. Jensen(1996) describes the Mandorla as similar to the image of two Mandalas(Sanskrit word for circle) merging together until an almond shape is formed in the center. Also known as the "Vesica Piscis", symbolizing the interactions and interdependence of opposing worlds and forces. The circles may be taken to represent spirit and matter or heaven and earth(Baldock, 1990).
http://www.sandplayusa.org/mandorla.html

Ted Laurence
Oldawan
Associate
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 5:00 am

Post by Oldawan » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

I used to stare at these things and wonder what they were. I had a few ideas about them but never any concrete facts. I noticed that they kept my mind from wandering. Perhaps, I thought, the symbols mean something so foreign that I can't understand without an explanation.

http://www.mandalaproject.org/
http://www.mandalas.com/innerbalance.htm

???????

Here is a site that gives a bit of history:

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/mandala/

The Mandorla is also an archaic charm; anything put in the middle of the two joined circles is protected from evil and evil spirits.

Jung's Mandalas:

http://www.netreach.net/~nhojem/jung.htm

"Indeed, Jung's discovery of the mandala provided the key to his
entire system. "I had to abandon the idea of the superordinate
position of the ego. ... I saw that everything, all paths I had
been following, all steps I had taken, were leading back to a
single point -- namely, to the mid-point. It became increasingly
plain to me that the mandala is the centre. It is the exponent
of all paths. It is the path to the centre, to individuation.
... I knew that in finding the mandala as an expression of the
self I had attained what was for me the ultimate."

_________________
oldawan



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Oldawan on 2003-12-30 23:58 ]</font>
chittavritti
Associate
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:21 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by chittavritti » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

" vesica piscis" ? I don't know why but your quoted description suddenly brought to mind images of the countless Venn Diagrams i had to do in school LOL! I wonder if this was their foundation?
Raphael
Associate
Posts: 724
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:44 pm
Location: SPACETIME

Post by Raphael » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

The Inca Chakana, a solar cross, is in itself a mandala...more to follow.

namaste

_________________
ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...
God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raphael on 2006-03-25 12:05 ]</font>
creekmary
Associate
Posts: 654
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:13 am
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Post by creekmary » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

I wonder if they might not work something like "magic eye" pictures. You might not recognize anything at first glance, but your mind is still able to process it. Instead of flying ducks maybe you eventually get to see god.

Susan
Locked