dream interpretation

Who was Joseph Campbell? What is a myth? What does "Follow Your Bliss" mean? If you are new to the work of Joseph Campbell, this forum is a good place to start.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

Locked
Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:05 pm

Ty,

In the spirit of each dreamer knowing best what his or her dream might mean, what are your initial thoughts?

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
Donna in Arizona
Associate
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:35 pm
Location: Under the Mogollon Rim

Post by Donna in Arizona » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:18 pm

If every image in your dream is an aspect of you... how would you describe your interpretation of the "you" in each incarnation? i.e., you the father/scuba diver, you the skipper, you the thief, the morphing bird (images of the phoenix??)... ?

what about archetypes?

fascinating dream recall detail!!
Ty
Associate
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:24 pm

Post by Ty » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:12 pm

Cindy B. wrote:Ty,

In the spirit of each dreamer knowing best what his or her dream might mean, what are your initial thoughts?

Cindy

HA! Here my own words return to haunt me! Of course, that is no original thought of mine, but I do recall having made that comment before :)

Although this dream took place two years ago, I will try to recall my initial thoughts.

I believed the waters were symbolic of the unknown. This seemed apt, as the course of my life is a bit off the beaten path. My father scuba diving into this unknown is the very image of myself doing likewise, in following the quest that I believed to be my calling.

This I am watching from the viewpoint of anxiety or fear.

Cape Horn is the ultimate goal. I believed this was symbolic of Buddha consciousness, as I was heavily involved with those ideas at the time. But here, I could not stay. I was not yet ready for it.

The Golf Mission: The old man was representative of my wisdom. His beard was virility. (I might add, that this corresponds to the point in the hero's journey where supernatural aid is required) At the time, I had a lack of meaningful relationships in my life. So that this mission becomes one of overcoming these threshold demons that were keeping me from my clubs.

There is much in our culture, especially in the great Southeast, albeit religious in nature, that makes immoral the most natural things in life. I believe this plays a part. Quite aside from any other aspirations.

Now, I am quite sure you have your ideas... By all means, do not be shy!
Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:38 am

Interesting, Ty. :)

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts, too, about this part:
Before [my father] can return, I am in another place. Before me is a caged bird. Underneath the bird is another bird under a lump of ice. As I looked on, the little bird knocked off the ice, and he dropped from the cage to the ground.

I felt very sorry for the bird and tried to help it. But it is very weak and unable to fly or walk. Presently, the bird grows stronger and leaps from the floor onto the pant leg. This startles me and I knock it back to the floor.

But it does not long remain there. It has morphed into another form! It has a long beak, which I liken to a mosquito, and I believe it wants to suck my blood. It's only other distinguishable characteristic is that it is almost invisible.

As the dream ends, I am swatting at the bird with a bat.
Cindy


P.S. Also, how old were you when you had this dream? I'm thinking stage of life here.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
Ty
Associate
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:24 pm

Post by Ty » Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:31 pm

Donna in Arizona wrote:If every image in your dream is an aspect of you... how would you describe your interpretation of the "you" in each incarnation? i.e., you the father/scuba diver, you the skipper, you the thief, the morphing bird (images of the phoenix??)... ?

what about archetypes?

fascinating dream recall detail!!

I am not sure about the bird. I believe it is an amalgamation of influences, ranging in topic from the overall pervading theme to a sense of ingratitude from someone I might have liked or tried to help.

Although the thing was drempt all of a piece, I cannot think of the bird images but as a little separate.

Cindy, I appreciate your question, but I cannot bring myself to answer at this time. The reason for my sudden reticence may be, however, of interest to a psychologist! Suddenly, I feel very exposed; and cannot answer as to my age at time of the dreaming without knowing more about what you may reveal.

After all, this is a very public place :)
Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:17 pm

I do understand your reticence, Ty, and you'll rarely catch me sharing particularly personal information on a public board either. :wink: If, by chance, my response to you regarding those two aspects of your dream left you considering them in a different way, a way that might lead you to further insight, then my primary intention was fulfilled. As for asking about your age at the time of the dream, consider the possible implications of this father image were you a male teen, for example, as compared to a man in his early adult years or in middle age or in old age. See what I mean? (You are a guy, right?) Regardless, whether this thread or another, please only share whatever you're comfortable with airing on a public forum.

Later!

Cindy


P.S. And most likely the scene with the bird is in fact associated with other dream images and events.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
Ty
Associate
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:24 pm

Post by Ty » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:34 pm

I have been reading into your eight stages of life. As with Maslow's hierarchy, I believe one may work on many of the stages at once.

You may be sure that I do only share what I am comfortable with. I am sorry that this statement seems to have moved you to want to close discussion. Or do I read you wrong?

To clarify myself, I believe it is the ambiguity that makes one wary. One begins to suspect an enemy in the bush. Never mind that my rational mind knows this for absurdity. This is primal.

I am not quite certain of your meaning as to the relation of 'father' to the stages of life. I am a young man (29) and I am aware that in order to do what I have done in life I had to get past a seeking for his approval.

I think that when a man has a family, another transition occurs between a child and his father. Suddenly, I remember James Joyce; that a man is still a son til he becomes a father. He becomes a father once with the birth of children. He becomes a father twice with the birth of art.

From the spot where I stand, I can see no further into it. Also, I have not read into these kinds of materials.


Ty
Ty
Associate
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:24 pm

Post by Ty » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:53 pm

Hey Cindy,

I have found some materials on stages of life, father / son relationship, and so forth - and I am sure I will continue to plow into it.

Are there any BOOKS you would recommend?
Ty
Associate
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:24 pm

Post by Ty » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:22 pm

A scenario:

The Man gives birth to a Man who is a Son.

In the act of becoming a Man, the Son gives birth to himself in discovering his life's work.

The Son (now a Man) gives birth to a Man who is a Son - thus becoming his Father.

or,

The Man gives birth to a Man who is a Son.

In the act of becoming a Man, the Son takes on his father's work - ambitions - values.


I wonder to what extend one sees himself in the image of his father? I wonder to what extent this varies from individual to individual. Surely, in cases where the Son takes the Fathers work, the one may see the other in mirror image?
CarmelaBear
Associate
Posts: 4087
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Post by CarmelaBear » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:14 pm

Cindy B. wrote:I do understand your reticence, Ty, and you'll rarely catch me sharing particularly personal information on a public board either. :wink:
Cindy
Good counsel, Cindy. There are very few circumstances that allow someone to be open in a public forum.

:!:
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:59 am

Ty wrote:I have been reading into your eight stages of life.
Are you referring, Ty, to Erik Erikson's eight stages of psychosocial development? If so, it's a decent model to consider. If not, you can review its basics here : http://psychology.about.com/od/psychoso ... strust.htm Note the link at the end of each stage to take you to the next. As for your dream, you may find it helpful to consider the effects of your relationship with your father at these various stages and how it influenced your dream in the here-and-now, as well as any characteristics of your dream father image that might apply to your own personality in some way. Something to keep in mind, too, is that in dreams, the unconscious often portrays symbolically what is disavowed consciously; this may or may not pertain to your dream.

You may be sure that I do only share what I am comfortable with. I am sorry that this statement seems to have moved you to want to close discussion. Or do I read you wrong?
And sorry for any confusion in this regard. My intention was to assure you that I'd not push for anymore personal information than you're comfortable with sharing on a public board. One's entire personal history influences every dream, and in addition to the immediate psychosocial situation that gave rise to the dream, and if you're anything like me, at some point the need for privacy kicks in. Also, I'm unlikely to offer interpretations of my own in reference to your dream and dream images. What I will do is suggest additional avenues of exploration that seem salient to me and that may (or may not) prove fruitful for you.

I am not quite certain of your meaning as to the relation of 'father' to the stages of life. I am a young man (29) and I am aware that in order to do what I have done in life I had to get past a seeking for his approval.

I think that when a man has a family, another transition occurs between a child and his father. Suddenly, I remember James Joyce; that a man is still a son til he becomes a father. He becomes a father once with the birth of children. He becomes a father twice with the birth of art.

From the spot where I stand, I can see no further into it. Also, I have not read into these kinds of materials.
I assume, then, that you're unfamiliar with the concept of masculine archetypes, right? As beings of a specific sort, human beings are archetypically (instinctually) predisposed to perceive and to experience the world, others, and selves in certain ways. At this stage of collective psychic development, these perceptions and experiences are rooted biologically in the distinction between the sexes, male and female, and in psychosocially assigned gender roles, masculine and feminine (Go here.), as well as within the cultural context of patriarchal consciousness typical of the Western psyche (Go here). The father archetype, for instance, on the positive side, is at the root of traditionally conceived masculine attitudes and behaviors typical of adult males who provide authoritative protection, guidance, and support of the family, while on the negative side may behave with tyrannical control, abuse of paternal authority, or abandonment of family. (A “family” group could refer to one's immediate family, church or spiritual family, country, etc.) A related concept is the masculine Logos that traditionally refers to the psychic functions of rationality, intellect, and spirituality. (Contrast with the feminine Eros that traditionally refers to the disposition to connect through relationship, feeling, and intuition.) So, Ty, you might want to consider the implications of the particular father image in your dream in light of this information. Also, regarding the birds in your dream, it may be helpful to consider that symbols of Logos can include birds or other winged creatures, even planes or UFOs these days (Think "elemental air.").


Cindy


P.S. This might interest you, too. Here Clemsy raises the issue of mythical relationships between father and son, a pair of heroes, past and present. (T. H. White didn't call it The Once & Future King for nothin'. :P): http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic. ... 5163#55163
Last edited by Cindy B. on Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
CarmelaBear
Associate
Posts: 4087
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Post by CarmelaBear » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:54 pm

I would rather be whole than good. --Jung
Wonderful quote. I agree with the sentiment, and wonder how it happens that ethics become so impractical. Can it be that ethics threaten the very thing they seem to be created to protect?

There may be a conflict between the basis for an ethics of goodness and an ethics of wholeness. They have come to represent separate good things. It's hard to distinguish them.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
Ty
Associate
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:24 pm

Post by Ty » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:40 pm

Cindy,

I wish to thank you very dearly for the time you have spent with me on this dream. You may be sure that your time has not been wasted, as I fully intend to help myself to all of the information you have provided.

I have often wished to have some aquaintanship with an analyst; and as there aren't any such people in my present sphere, this must be the next best thing or better!

Thanks again,

Ty
Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:10 am

You're very welcomed, Ty. :)

And so you know, what I offered you for consideration comes from the Jungian psychology perspective, a perspective that permeates Campbell's work. These two men were of similar ilk when it comes to comparative mythology and religion and personal development, so familiarizing yourself with Jungian psychology basics will enhance your understanding of Campbell's work as well as of yourself.

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
Ty
Associate
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:24 pm

Post by Ty » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:10 pm

CarmelaBear wrote:
I would rather be whole than good. --Jung
Wonderful quote. I agree with the sentiment, and wonder how it happens that ethics become so impractical. Can it be that ethics threaten the very thing they seem to be created to protect?

There may be a conflict between the basis for an ethics of goodness and an ethics of wholeness. They have come to represent separate good things. It's hard to distinguish them.

~
Hello CarmelaBear,

I only just saw the above quoted sentiment and wanted to ask you - could this be seen as a problem of human grace versus supernatural grace? Where the individual is so preoccupied with being 'good,' that he (or she) cuts himself off from life? Examples being declarations of celibacy, passivism, and so forth?
Locked