What is meant by the left hand path?

Who was Joseph Campbell? What is a myth? What does "Follow Your Bliss" mean? If you are new to the work of Joseph Campbell, this forum is a good place to start.

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bodhibliss
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Post by bodhibliss » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Thanks, Ken, for all that wonderful information.

I too am impressed by Miranda Shaw "doing the work" - that carries tremendous weight for me personally - much like anthropologists Michael Harner and Jeremy Narby participating in shamanic ayahuasca/yage ceremonies among native rainforest tribes. Unfortunately this does taint the results in the eyes of old school anthropologists who consider such behavior "going native"

... but we are long past the day when only an "objective" outside observer could be trusted to document a culture (as if there is such a thing as "objective" and anthropologists are somehow able to ignore their own set of cultural biases - which often are completely unconscious - and step outside their own skin). One can only learn so much from the outside - but to understand the core of a culture, one has to step "inside," and experience the heart of the culture - something more scholars are willing to do today.

Otherwise, we miss out on so much depth and richness.

The volume on shamanism is as follows:

Civilized Shamans: Buddhism in Tibetan Societies, by Geoffrey Samuels, Smithsonian Institution Press, Washington & London, c. 1993.

Samuels, Chair of the Religious Studies Department at Lancaster University in England, published this work a few months prior to Miranda Shaw's Passionate Enlightenment ... heavily academic in tone, but well researched. He doesn't spend much time on the role of women in tantric Buddhism, but nothing he says seems at odds with Shaw's conclusions - you could say Shaw fills in what Samuels and so many other scholars long ignored.

Good points about the multiple origins of Vajrayana beliefs - naturally, no one concept, principle, or action has a simple, single cause, and so a variety of sources give rise to tantric Buddhism, especially given the cross-fertilization from so many directions coming together in the crossroads of Bactria and Afghanistan - and so to find one root of the Vajrayana school planted in pre-Buddhist shamanism by no means precludes Gnostic influences from the West, for example ...

A very informative exchange, Ken - at least for me. Thanks for adding to my knowledge, and for the author recommendation (i have yet to read Bharati)

... and never any need to reply to every snippet that pops up in a post of mine - i tend to wander off on multiple tangential streams of consciousness - you only need speak to whatever strikes your fancy ...

blessed be
bodhibliss

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Post by Raphael » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

On 2005-12-31 16:05, Ken O'Neill wrote:

I'm not convinced the left is always associated with the feminine in India iconography. Here's why. Icons of the standing Amitabha have the right hand raised and the left extended, both with forefinger and thumb forming circles. The raised right had signifies the pole of bodhi or awakening, itself feminine (as is sophia in the west), while the left hand/arm is extended out into the world, the masculine role of activity - in this case as karuna (badly rendered and misunderstood when given away as "compassion"...
In China, the swastika is called wan. Its shape appears twice in Ji, the character for 10, 000. Hence, it is also a symbol of prosperity. In Chinese depictions of Amitabha, it frequently appears on his chest.

http://www.khandro.net/swastika.htm

Ken I believe in 'light' of this information we can now almost assume the directions of the Amitabha to represent the 2 axis of the earth, known as the two trees knowledge and life, represented by the north to south polarities and the west to east rotation of the earth.

And Ganesh is also rife with left / right symbolism and he too was linked to the 'right-handed' swastika.

So in the mind of man where the two trees also exist the left hemisphere or Right-handed path is the Tree of Knowledge and the right hemisphere or Left-handed path is the Tree of Life.

The ventruvian man, legs and arms outstrectched, making the shape of an X exemplifies also the two axis that divide man and intersect man, his left brain controlling his right side and the his right hemisphere dominnating his left.
These two trees also represent the earth's two axis.
And Stephen Hawking is now developing theories on the basis that one axis is 'Real Time ' and the other axis 'Imaginary Time'.

And the swastika by its rotation is the symbol that denotes which is the dominant pattern of thought, which path the collective is on.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, how many words do we need to describe the depth of what the swastika truly meant and represented prior to 1930?

Is it all just a conincidence or all of these things truly connected?
http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic. ... 3&forum=27

namaste

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ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...
God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.



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Post by ritske » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

In the beginning of this thread, David Kudler asked whether anyone knew where the term 'night sea journey' comes from. As far as I know, the term comes from Leo Frobenius, who was a huge influence on both Jung and Campbell. I haven't read Frobenius myself, but I've come across several sources which claim that the term 'night sea journey' comes from Frobenius.
Frobenius, Leo
born June 29, 1873, Berlin, Ger.
died Aug. 9, 1938, Biganzolo, Italy

German explorer, ethnologist, and one of the originators of the culture-historical approach to ethnology. He was also a leading authority on prehistoric art.

Largely self-educated as a social scientist, Frobenius led 12 expeditions to Africa between 1904 and 1935 and explored centres of prehistoric art in the Alps, Norway, Spain, and northern and southern Africa. Frobenius attributed a common origin to the cultures of Oceania and West Africa. He advocated the idea of cultural diffusion and arranged areas of the same cultural distribution into what he called Kulturkreise (cultural clusters, or cultural complexes). This concept was further extended by Fritz Graebner.

Source: Encyclopedia Britannica
In 'A fire in the mind', the Larsens quote a passage from Campbell's diary, written at the time he was reading Frobenius during his retreat to Woodstock as a young man. In this passage, Campbell writes that from Frobenius he 'learned that the essential form of the myth is a cycle' (p. 226). Jung quotes Frobenius in the following way, illustrating this circular nature Campbell is referring to:
“A hero is devoured by a water-monster in the West (devouring). The animal travels with him to the East (sea journey). Meanwhile, the hero lights a fire in the belly of the monster (fire-lighting), and feeling hungry, cuts himself a piece of the heart (cutting off the heart). Soon afterwards, he notices that the fish has glided on to dry land (landing); he immediately begins to cut open the animal from within (opening); then he slips out (slipping out). It was so hot in the fishes belly that all his hair has fallen out (heat and hair). The hero may at the same time free all those who were previously devoured by the monster, and now slip out too.” (CW 5, para. 310)
The obvious example of such a myth seems to be that of Jonah and the whale. The Egyptian myth of the sun-god Re having to sail through the underworld in his bark every night also comes to mind, although in that story the God isn't swallowed by a monster but has to fight it from the outside. The obvious source to find more examples if of course Campbell's 'The hero with a thousand faces': in the little chapter 'the belly of the whale' (p. 90) Campbell gives countless of other examples (Herakles, the Eskimo hero 'Raven', the Irish hero Finn MacCool, among others).

There is a strong parallel to the term 'dark night of the soul', which one source I've read claims comes from St. John of the cross, although I do not know if this is true.

I think that for Campbell, terms like the 'night sea journey' and 'the left-hand path' roughly meant the same kind of thing, namely the archetypal pattern put forward in the Hero with a thousand faces: separation, inititation, return.

Another relationship between the 'night sea journey' and the 'left hand path' could be that the night sea journey begins in the West, which is often associated with the left hand (this of course only being the case when you're facing north). In ancient Egypt, the land of the dead was thought to be in the West, and as has been put foward in some posts in this thread 'left' is often associated with evil/death. Both the left hand path and the night sea journey could be seen as referring to a descent into darkness: a seperation from the constraints of the culture, as Jung would have it. Both, then, could be seen as a form of 'inidividuation': finding your own path, which can feel as a descent into darkness. From a Jungian point of view, this seems to make sense...

Ritske

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Post by Ken O'Neill » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

On 2006-01-04 22:28, Raphael wrote:
Ken I believe in 'light' of this information we can now almost assume the directions of the Amitabha to represent the 2 axis of the earth, known as the two trees knowledge and life, represented by the north to south polarities and the west to east rotation of the earth.
Cambpell deals with the swastika in the chapter The Empty Symbol in his The Flight of the Wild Gander, with specific discussion of that symbol on amida nyorai.

For Campbell, the swastika references the shaman, possibly depicting or suggesting flight.

The shaman, says Campbell, takes flight to the otherworld. Chanting is the beating of the wings supporting instanteous movement from the saha world to the other one.

He suggests that the shamanic urge, evolved through the arising of agriculture and city-states, carries forward with Immeasurably Awaken (translating amida butsu) as a nondual release from the prison of socially contructed reality/self. Hence, the essence of shamanism carries forward in new application to the social order.

And that's been the drift of rebirth in sukhavati, amida's realm, since its origins in India.

Those two trees, while interesting, are not to my knowledge found in India nor Buddhism. While interesting, how does one justify superimposing alien imagery on another tradition?

best
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Post by Raphael » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am


Those two trees, while interesting, are not to my knowledge found in India nor Buddhism. While interesting, how does one justify superimposing alien imagery on another tradition?

best
Let's just call it comparative mythology.

And why can I make these connections between what appears to be totally unrelated?

The brief, short, concise,profound, to the point answer is...

'because everything is connected in some way'.
More on this later...have a ferry to catch.

namaste

Raphael

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ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...
God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.

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Post by Ken O'Neill » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Comparative mythology is based on comparing A to B.

Syncreticism involves adding A to B, thereby creating C.

I have no opposition to syncreticism when it is syncreticism. When it is confused with comparison, then there is a problem.

We have had a good two centuries of Orientalism as outlined by Said in his book of that name. His book focuses on the work of self-priveleging white european males making the claim only they properly understand Islam and Arabs. Orientalism is a tool of colonial imperialism, demonstrating the white man is in the position of power to interpret other's traditions - that the 'other' is hopelessly corrupted, doesn't even understand their tradition. Just whitey does. That, in turn, justified colonization of other countries.

Orientalism is found in the study of buddhism and hinduism and daoism. Telling the native that his symbols mean things foreign to his cultural outlook violates the barrier of comparative studies - it intrudes, adding what is not there in the first place. Hence a dualistic tree metaphor of the middle east and foreign to india is not an act of comparison when imposed, but instead is minimally syncretic - and can definitely be interpreted as colonizing.

This issue is a red hot one today. Buddhist Studies as a scholarly interprise is an artefact of Western colonialism. In the wake of Said's publication, some self-revue occured within Buddhist studies, most of it concluding there was no colonialism present. At least male scholars maintained that. Females, who form a minority themselves, felt otherwise and demonstrated the persistence of colonialism. They were vigorous contradicted by their male colleagues.

Then we move Eastward. Japan is the capital of Buddhist studies - as Israel is for Judaica. Japanese, and a growing population of Chinese, are outraged by the arrogance of white male scholars superimposing thier views on Buddhism as the academic standard. Part of the reason for that dislike is the white guys think religion is a matter of doctrine alone, that practice is irrelevant, that experiential awakening means nothing. Hence they are fully on the outside, with an understanding of buddhism that is artifical. Asian Buddhists understand that if you're not training the mind with meditation, your buddhist studies are like people who watch football games but do not play - Monday Morning Quarterbacks or idle gossips.

I mention this because it is a sensitive issue and has sides to it. And you should understand that while your efforts are well intended, they are also capable of angering people who will regard them not as "comparative mythology" but as an intrusive syncreticism more reflective of a 21st century outside than someone "in the know."

And I ask you to NOT believe what I have just written. Instead, I invite you to do some research to arrive at your own independent conclusion. Said's book is a good starting place. The book The Curators of the Buddha is another good one. Using google scholar you will find a great deal in post-colonialist scholarship and theory from people of various Asian countries.

I learned this stuff the hard way. Like yourself I was cock sure of myself, then astonished at how rudely my conclusions were taken by natives.

best regards,
Ken O'Neill
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Post by RavenHeart » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

On 2004-02-14 14:21, cliff w wrote:
My interpretation of the "left hand path" is that of surrendering our life in the spritual [sic] sense instead of our trying to control it in the material sense.
I first heard of the "left handed path" while living with a prim yogi and a folklorist in Old Delhi for three months, studying Hindu mythology and the culture of Hindu India. This yogi is not only a very wise man, but also a learned one, and occasionally questioned me, rightfully, on my use of English! I grew to respect him more the more I stayed with his family, and have many stories to tell from that time.

However, he put the definition of the "left handed path" and the "right handed path" very succinctly.

He explained to me that the left handed path is the path of power. Regardless of the practices, followers of a left handed path are interested in attaining divine power first, and surrender second. On the contrary, the "right handed path" is the path of surrender. Adherents of a right handed path must surrender completely to the divine superpower within them first, and only when this surrender is complete, and tested, is then the power given to them.

The advantage of the left handed path is that it has quick results: power may be achieved and manifested early in the game. The disadvantage is that it is nearly impossible to take the final step on a left handed path, which is the step of surrender. Why? Because power is very difficult for the little self (call it ego, or nafs, or what have you) to give up. So many embark on the left handed path, but very few arrive at unity with the godhead, only because of that last step that requires handing over everything one has seemingly attained.

Conversely, the disadvantage of a right handed path is that apparent progress is slow. Following a right handed path is akin to walking across the sword-bridge in Lancelot’s journey: it progressively cuts you down until, at the end, there is no more of you. And the big cats lay waiting on the other side to devour any bit that may have made it across alive. A right handed path is designed to force or induce a total and complete surrender on the part of the seeker: a surrender to the godhead within oneself (call it what you may: Atman, The Self, etc.). The advantage of a right handed path is that you do the tough job first: surrender. After the surrender is final, then the power is given, and the divine manifests as It wills. The disciple is no longer, so there is nothing to interfere.

Those who take a left handed route are much more apt to end up entangled in their own Maya, and, in the end, be devoured. As mentioned earlier, it is the path of the magician, yes. And look at what a tough time Faust had!

My “Indian Father” did not want to speak more of left handed paths, for he sensed that power was a temptation for me. The only other thing he mentioned was that certain left handed paths in Hindu India followed the ways of certain nocturnal animals, but I will not go into that here.

***

I didn't find a mention of the correlation between the left handed path and the left handed swastika of the Nazi party. Perhaps I did not read the earlier posts carefully enough. But there certainly is a correlation; Hitler was very much interested in a path of power, and not too keen on surrender.

The swastika, as we know, is a symbol for an energy constellation within a particular chakra. Another way of picturing that energy is a wheel, a sun, a top, a prayer wheel, or a throwing star (what the word chakra means). All of these things, as Ananda K. Coomaraswami reminded us, originate in a spiritual vision, inspiration, or experience, and manifest externally in different forms. The swastika is no different. But it is noteworthy, I think, to contrast the ubiquitous right handed swastika of Hindu India—which we find not only in Ganesha's hand, but glued on the back of the auto-rickshaws and painted on the wall behind the hearts of brides during their henna ceremony—with the left handed swastika of the Third Reich.
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Post by ritske » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Ravenheart,

Fascinating post! Seems like we're forced to draw the conclusion, then, that the word 'left hand path' means different things to different people (kind of obvious, I guess <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> ). The way your teacher uses it certainly seems to be different from the way Campbell uses it, for example.

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Post by Raphael » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncreticism

Syncretism is the attempt to reconcile disparate, even opposing, beliefs and to meld practices of various schools of thought. It is especially associated with the attempt to merge and analogize several originally discrete traditions, especially in the theology and mythology of religion, and thus assert an underlying unity.
Ken have you read my threads in regards to what I believe are the origins of the swastika?
If you have not, I can only suggest you need to read my thoughts on this matter before we can engage in a conversation of a higher order.
I no longer believe in coincidences Ken.

http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic. ... 3&forum=27

Only then Ken will you gain a proper perspective on my ‘position’ as we meet each other head on, on the paths we have both chosen. What I offer are brief explanations, all encompassing observations and theories that would make Einstein proud. It is the result of immersing myself in reductionist thinking. So which path do we chose as we meet one another head on, the right hand path or left hand path? Your right hand path is my left and your left hand path is my right. Or does one of us rise above the apparent obstacle and avoid the conflict, allowing both to continue on their respective paths unharmed?

Or does the Creation within reveal what is to occur at this meeting of the souls?
The answer becomes self-evident and it is revealed in how the DNA is wound.
It is woven and represented by the colors red and blue. So the strength in the fabric of life (us) comes from intersecting at diagonals and we use the symbol X to represent these weaves adding strength to the matrix by creating triangles….Buckminister Fuller and his Geodesic dome and the discovery of the ‘Bucky Ball’ again I suggest is purely mere coincidence. Ha!
So does a cross contained within a circle have significance in how we manifest design from within…our cellular etched DNA triggering behaviors? It also reveals why we shake hands with our right hand, which is the diplomat we dispatch to encounter the enemy on the middle path. You extend your right hand in Peace to display you have no weapon concealed.
And we find our balance with our soul-mate when we walk in the same direction, hand in hand (does not matter which) and when I face my soul mate my right hand holds her left, her right hand holds my left and we are in a position to embrace one another. We are on the same path. We are dancing the ‘light fantastic’, spinning, twirling and whirling dervishes. Are we Sufis that have become surfers, riding the waves of life?
The Swastika is the symbol that indicates everything spins…and vibrates. The earth spins and vibrates does it not?
This is respectively rotation and polarities represented by the 2 axis.
As a couple however with arms crossed we can no longer embrace one another and we may knock each other off the path we vowed to stay the course together. We dance at a distance unable to help each other, if one of us should stray to far from the middle path.

This is beautiful and again connecting for all of mankind and explains I believe in simple terms using the blueprints of our own bodies as a road map to understanding or realizing our true consciousness. We arrive with the ‘manual’. Religion because the Goddess was slain and now lacks the balance necessary as a guiding force is now encouraging people to trade-in their god-given manuals for the new improved Temple Priest version known as the Bible, the HIStory of a man-un-kind.

Ken are you Buddhist?
How many years have you studied and how much time have you invested in your beliefs Ken?
There appears to be an apparent bias.
If my language sounded of colonialism it was not intentional.
The only reason I used the Two Trees as a comparison is because often others reading here may be more familiar with the Judaeo/Christian scripture / mythology.

However it is very important to point out the swastika predates the wan based on findings elsewhere throughout the world prior to being recognized as a symbol in China. And I would suggest Ken all symbols could be shown to evolve from a line whether horizontal, vertical, diagonal or wavy and an attempt at a circle. These are the basics…maybe a dot also. Circles lines and dots.
So now that we understand the basics of the primitive mind what would he be drawing and why? Would the same light show in the heavens be playing again? With however a slight alteration of story line?

Are you aware of what the holographic principle implies? It implies that 3D light being projected from the sun or stars can be stored on a 2D surface but yet still contain all of the information of its 3D source… and the process can be reversed.
So instinct is received through light. Everything is light. Watching the same light show etched symbols into our cellular memory. Everything is received through light, the cosmic rays of our Father the Sun. Would you doubt the effects of UV and InfraRed…the light and vibrations we receive daily?

Back to sand art 20000 BC…Lets start with a vertical line drawn l and beside it draw a circle O.
What we have is the number l O or a vertical line dissecting a circle.
For those that recognize symbolism we also have the number 10 and the binary math necessary to express all life and consciousness into a digital virtual expression.

It is certainly a departure from the ‘analogue’ reality that predated the digital revolution.

I remember when I first started my journey of trying to express the formula:
Energy = God
I had read something rather encouraging written by Einstein where he believed the Theory of Everything would be a rather simple equation not unlike E = Mcc , his formula used for everything big in the macro Universe.

Having read he words I was inspired and eventually I came upon the idea I could express the steps of creation by using the fingers of one hand.
Why?
It should be so simple a child could understand. The patterns I recognize are Universal and they are the triggers of our behaviours, which dictate whether we lean left or right.

Let there be light…but which light do you embrace?
The one coming to us daily from the east (with messages that our cellular consciousness interprets) or the light emanating from the corners of our rooms, where consent is manufactured?

In conclusion the + contained within a circle O is the balance we seek.
And it is a fine representative of the saying “a picture is worth a thousand words”.
It also profoundly illustrates how we handicapped our holistic thinking processes by removing the ‘hieroglyphs, the symbols’ from our consciousness replacing them with manmade ‘signs’ telling us to turn left and right, stop, merge and yield with your fellow man. We take our cues as we assume roles given to us!

The end result thus being and this is prophecy Ken, the birth of a graven image society structured on manufacturing consent using patriarchal signs, which through time have replaced the matriarchal symbols of the former Goddess cultures. Signs have evolved into advertising; creating desires, the buttons they push are meant to encourage the flock to remain together as a group herded and in fear, safety in numbers and for those wee lambs who stray there are the border (police/Homeland Security) collies nipping at their heels and keeping them in line as they volunteer to be slaughtered overseas so those that remain at home will continue to be safe and comfortable.
Don’t you see it Ken?
A true connected Buddhist would not really take any offence to my cosmogony, would he?
And if he did I would suggest more meditations on taming those dragons at the fourth chakra.

Namaste
________
ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...
God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raphael on 2006-02-02 21:47 ]</font>
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Post by Raphael » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

I didn't find a mention of the correlation between the left handed path and the left handed swastika of the Nazi party.
Ravenheart I can direct you to four sites and many more I am sure (google: right hand swastika), 2 of which refer to the Nazi swastika as left and 2 sites claim it is right.
So which is it?
Seems we are at the same place we were once before in TIME, which is left and which is right?
Perhaps I did not read the earlier posts carefully enough. But there certainly is a correlation; Hitler was very much interested in a path of power, and not too keen on surrender.

The swastika, as we know, is a symbol for an energy constellation within a particular chakra. Another way of picturing that energy is a wheel, a sun, a top, a prayer wheel, or a throwing star (what the word chakra means). All of these things, as Ananda K. Coomaraswami reminded us, originate in a spiritual vision, inspiration, or experience, and manifest externally in different forms. The swastika is no different. But it is noteworthy, I think, to contrast the ubiquitous right handed swastika of Hindu India—which we find not only in Ganesha's hand, but glued on the back of the auto-rickshaws and painted on the wall behind the hearts of brides during their henna ceremony—with the left handed swastika of the Third Reich.
Ravenheart some of the information you shared I believe is incorrect. It is TIME to address the true meaning of this magnificent symbol. We have allowed those that have had a self-interest through HIStory to bury and marginalize its significance other than as a symbol to represent Holocaust II, a ‘manufactured heinous crime’.

Controversial?
Of course look how the myth of our HIStory is playing itself out….
So do we have another coincidence or a convergence of patterns?

Below the issue of left vs right will be put to rest using the movement of stars.


What If?

What if I were to suggest that there exists, that there resides within our consciousness two symbols representing a division of thought?

What if I were to suggest these two symbols can be shown to have had their birth amongst the stars, in the apparent movement of the stars?

What if it can be shown these two symbols represent the ‘polarity’ of thought that directs man’s collective behaviours?

What if these two symbols represent essentially the two ‘holocausts’ now immortalized in our recorded history?

What if these two symbols could also represent Cain vs. Abel?

What if these two symbols help explain the division that exists between western linear theosophy and eastern cyclical mysticism?

What if I were to suggest that these two symbols represent the duality that has become OUR modern myth, ‘THE’ Myth of the 21st Century?

What if we deny the evidence I am about to present?

The answers not surprisingly are in the heavens, always has been and has always been observable with the naked eye thus revealing itself to everyone not just those with telescopes.
(Thus for the answers we need not use our ego or pride of accomplishment to investigate, it is not necessary to build the telescope.)

Remember 99% of mankind’s activity took place as hunter-gatherers. And the 1% of recorded history, that epoch of butchery we call civilization is where we find ourselves today. So assuming our pre-historic ancestors were keen observers of the heavens and cycles of SPACETIME we can draw conclusions.
Watching the heavens was the ONLY show that played at the local drive-in at that time. It was a re-run, played nightly with slight alterations of the story line through the course of the year.

Here are the facts for those Left-Brained individuals who require information for analysis.
Those Right-brained among you, intuitively in the end will feel my hypothesis has merit.
It will simply ‘feel right’.

This duality of which I speak is also esoterically represented by the north vs. south magnetic polarities.

Some of the Facts:

Looking north we see but one star that dominates the night sky.
It is Polaris the North Star.
In the northern hemisphere all the constellations seem to revolve around Polaris in a counter-clockwise rotation. They revolve around a central point or axis.
The earth rotates counter-clockwise when viewed from above the north pole…i.e. from outer space but rotates clockwise when the observer is positioned in the northern hemisphere looking up at the sky.
It is without a doubt a ‘cyclical’ pattern which is observable and which can be shown eventually evolved into an ancient pre-historic Solar Cross.
This solar cross it has been shown to have penetrated all of the ancient civilizations with the exception of Egypt, Chaldea, Assyria and Phoenicia.

And the 2 twins most conspicuous as universal ‘timekeepers’ are the Big and Little Dipper, the Great Bear and Little Bear.
Each consists of 7 stars.

And between the Two Bears is Draco the Dragon acting as a boundary between the Two Dippers. The metaphorical dragon I believe is the gatekeeper between the two universes, the inner and the outer. This is where quantum and relativity collide, where the chaos of quantum manifests itself as relative order.
Draco could be viewed as the metaphoric serpent guarding the Apples of the Hesperides which grow on the axle tree. - Joscelyn Godwin
Around 4000 B.C. the night sky could be recorded as thus … the 7-stars known as the Little Bear if placed in the sky according to the 4 seasons and the 4 directions of space revolving around the then Pole-star Thuban or alpha Draconis resembles without a doubt the Solar Cross known to us as the swastika or the Buddhist omote manji, a symbol of love and mercy which is a left-handed swastika.
The symbol Ganesh represents is the right-handed swastika and there is good reason for this…

Go to these sites folks and prepare to be astounded!

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/11_02.htm

http://www.getmybb.com/mybb/index.php?m ... &#entry679
In Buddhism, a Swastika represents resignation. Usually found in the images of Buddha on His chest, palms, soles of feet. In Jainism, it delineates their seventh saint, and the four arms are also used to remind the worshiper of the four possible places of rebirth; the animal or plant world, in Hell, on Earth, or in the spirit world. To Hindus, the swastika with the arms bent to the left is called the sathio or sauvastika, which symbolizes night, magic, purity, and the destructive goddess Kali.
It is interesting to note that this symbol represents also the rotation of the earth, west moving toward east, toward the rising sun when viewed from above the earth, viewed from above the north pole.

But the most important realization is that the observer in the northern hemisphere sees and receives the branding of light as circular trails, the stars as moving around a central point in a counter-clockwise or Left-handed direction.
It represents the birth of the Goddess worshipping cultures, the pagans, those who see the world as a sum of the parts, as a whole, those ancestors of ours who lived by the light of the golden sun and the silvery moon, the Right-brained tree-hugging pagans.
The swastika is a pagan matriarchal symbol of the Goddess the Earth. It represents the Earth, it is a 3D globe revealing w to e rotation and n vs s polarity.

The swastika very early in our HERstory penetrated all of the polytheistic societies, it had the widest distribution of any symbol other than the Jesuit spread crucifix recorded by HIStory.

Now if we position ourselves in the southern hemisphere and look toward the night sky we observe a vastly different ‘light’ show, a vastly different message from the gods/god.
The stars do not rotate around a central point but appear to move across the sky in a horizontal linear fashion unlike the observers in the northern hemisphere that saw the passage of time as cyclical.

And there is also a constellation in the southern hemisphere visible to the naked eye called Crux. This constellation gives us a clue to the other symbol, known to us as the Crucifix.
The Crucifix represents the dominant western thought directing today’s collective it appears.
It represents Linear Theosophy…a beginning and an end…Genesis and Armageddon.
It was the birth of monotheism. And it is currently Patriarchal.


So today’s 21st century myth is the continuing saga of an oppressed people and the re-establishment of its society. It has lead to the 11th hour situation in the Mid-east which has the potential to effect the entire globe.
The myth speaks of a persecuted society condemned to wandering the earth, but interestingly they have settled according to their scripture and now we all wait.
You have the Biblical Cains (farmers or settlers needing land) displacing his brother the herder in Palestine. HIStory has told me they the Jews and Arabs are brothers and sisters and both along with Christianity are offspring of Abraham.
The perpetrators of the Jewish Holocaust are forever symbolized today by the Swastika.
But the end result of the Exodus was the establishment of a patriarchal society, which chose to eat and embrace the Tree of knowledge…representing the linear journey of man’s accomplishments, his pride and ego of HIStory, the journey of the fallen man.
Occident means ‘to fall’ and Orient means ‘to rise’.

But there has been another Holocaust that has been recorded since the beginning of recorded HIStory. It has been the slow eradication of a belief system. Systems that had been in place for thousands of years prior to the advent of the written language. These matriarchal earth worshipper’s have had their beliefs and lifestyles marginalized by the Temple Priests, those who had a Cross-to bear...these Priests were the obvious victors in the battle for our ‘hearts and minds’.
Yes it has been the holocaust of the non-believers, those not indoctrinated by the Judaeo-Christians those who have stood in the way of exploiting Gaia and it continues today.
The ‘Chosen’ have been conducting their own stealth holocaust disguised as saving the heathens, exploration and conquest strictly for the purpose of securing lands for energy resource exploitation, etc…the result of man giving himself dominion over the earth in scripture.
Through time the Left-Brained Intellectual Temple Priests and the Soul-less non-elected Corporate masters have slowly plundered and raped the elemental earth.
And today ancient myth has somehow manifested itself into a world where man's tinkering with the creation has brought us into direct conflict with the forces of nature...Father Sun with his cosmic rays of life and Mother Nature with her predictable 'mood' swings will soon reprimand their naughty children.

This I contend is the 21st century myth. Man trying to overcome the forces of nature, the laws of thermodynamics states he is in a game from which he cannot win or escape from...but his pride and ego residing on the shores of de Nile has embraced an endless Sisyphean battle against an endless cycle of trying to overcome his 'god-given limitations'.
Our 21st Myth is merely a continuation of this cycle, an enforcing of the patterns that have appeared time and again throughout history. The tales and epics through time are not unlike Sunday’s football game with a new host of characters showing up each week.
All the world’s a stage, the script is always the same and just like Hollywood repackaging the same stories for each successive generation, myths at their core … never change because our DNA has been etch – a – sketched – with the light of the Creator.

If Myths are the patterns that connect us to the big picture, I suggest their very essence will never change. Unless the big universal picture changes.
The only change is in how they get 'marketed' to the masses of the two new emerging species I have identified sadly as the sheeple and seagullables.

Can the 21st Century myth be defined and reduced to this?

Namaste

Raphael



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raphael on 2006-01-11 13:13 ]</font>
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Post by RavenHeart » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Thanks, Ritske. I thought it was worth mentioning, just because it was a different take—and one not from written scholarship, but from oral tradition.

And thanks, too, for actually listening to what I wrote. It's tempting, I know, to use these forums to preach from our recent revelations or poignantly profound epiphanies, without actually conversing in a reciprocal dialogue. As soon as we say, "you're wrong," we've missed out on that subtle opportunity to understand a different perspective.

But if we can listen to each other and strive toward a relationship of understanding (even if it might conclude in disagreement) through these forums, we may build the interconnections that themselves will contribute to the Earth's own consciousness.

Our reciprocal relationships with others—here and elsewhere—are sparks in the Earth's mind as she comes to her own self-awareness. It's through sensitive receptivity, I believe, that this miracle may actually come about.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RavenHeart on 2006-01-12 00:22 ]</font>
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Vissi
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Post by Vissi » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Gentlemen,

My thanks for a most interesting and illuminating discussion. So many thoughts and insights come to mind but I will limit my comments, as the questions I would like to ask are what return to mind again and again.

In posing these questions, please understand my intent is without guile or agenda; I ask, solely driven by interest in understanding.

What would be the motivations for a vajra initiate to produce a scholarly work on the practices of highest yoga tantra? While I am most grateful for scholarship and academic examination as a means of preserving and inspiring thought, I cannot see how undertaking an academic work on vajra, though not prohibited nor completely outside existence in a view that is nondual, would not be at least somewhat antithetical to the aims of the practice itself thereby hampering the progress of the initiate to attain through these skillful means, the goals of the practice and its vows. Also, there is the very great possibility that what one writes will be misunderstood and misused by those not possessing the foundational realizations that work in concert to clear the obscurations on the conscious level of awareness to utilize these actions to access other levels of being and that those who designate themselves already sufficiently empowered to utilize the symbology, mantras, mudras, etc. without corroboration from a vajra master, will use these practices unwisely and perhaps even endanger themselves.

I do know that there are fabled and legendary enlightenments that occured when gifted disciples and mahasiddhis were touched by the lightning bolt or fully received their sadhanas either as solitary realizers or in practice far from their teachers but one cannot count on such occurrences.

My intention is not to dramatize, without reason, the risks involved nor to ignore the possibility of risk altogther but to state the possibility and question whether some responsibility lies with an author for how their work can be used. Of course, absent all division and ethical judgments, more may find their true natures. So, I am deeply interested in other perspectives addressing these questions.

One observation, in your discussion of the Hindu tantric practices of meat-eating, drinking liquor, etc., I immediately recognized the Tibetan Buddhist Tsok offering that is practiced routinely, twice per month, in many temples. Is the vajra poetry, symbology, and iconography of the tsok offering indicative of a link to Hindu tantric practice or derived from other systems?

Thanks in advance for your insight and wisdom.

Peace, love, joy for all beings,
Dixie

_________________
We walk through ourselves,meeting robbers,ghosts,giants, old men,young men,wives,widows,brothers-in-love.But always meeting ourselves. J. Joyce

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Post by Evinnra » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Dear Vissi,

If I understand you correctly, you questioning the wisdom of relating 'secrets' of deeper understanding amongst each other. To your question, whether the author of this expressed wisdom will be ethically responsible for the actions of those who read and understand him/her, my short answer is NO. Perhaps you would agree with me that we either accept the premise that human beings have freedom of will to act, hence each of us are solely responsible for our own actions and reactions, or alternatively everything is predetermined and we have no freedom to act, in which case the 'unwise author' can not be held responsible for relating secrets because s/he felt compelled to do so.

On the other hand, what Raven Heart writes seem to struck a chord with me as true:
On 2006-01-12 00:20, RavenHeart wrote:

But if we can listen to each other and strive toward a relationship of understanding (even if it might conclude in disagreement) through these forums, we may build the interconnections that themselves will contribute to the Earth's own consciousness.

Our reciprocal relationships with others—here and elsewhere—are sparks in the Earth's mind as she comes to her own self-awareness. It's through sensitive receptivity, I believe, that this miracle may actually come about.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RavenHeart on 2006-01-12 00:22 ]</font>
It goes without saying that I appreciate your questioning and gentle guidance in this matter maybe even more than you can imagine.

Evinnra <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
http://evinnra-evinnra.blogspot.com
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Post by Vissi » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Hello Evinnra

Evinnra wrote:
If I understand you correctly, you questioning the wisdom of relating 'secrets' of deeper understanding amongst each other. To your question, whether the author of this expressed wisdom will be ethically responsible for the actions of those who read and understand him/her, my short answer is NO. Perhaps you would agree with me that we either accept the premise that human beings have freedom of will to act, hence each of us are solely responsible for our own actions and reactions, or alternatively everything is predetermined and we have no freedom to act, in which case the 'unwise author' can not be held responsible for relating secrets because s/he felt compelled to do so.
No, Evinnra my questions tended more toward the effects of conceptualizing on vajra initiates whose use of the skillful means of tantric practice moves more toward direct experience and eliminating intellectual constructs. However, I have read and heard that those who are highly realized are able to move between these states with ease as separateness crumbles.

As to revealing "secrets," tantric knowledge is most often presented as treasured rather than secret but it can also be said that knowledge of every sort has an exoteric and esoteric meaning or interpretation. Many initiates receive empowerments well before the knowledge can be practically applied or used to great benefit, what is asked of the initiate is to be mindful of the gifts received. It is the custom in the tradition I study that teachers teach from personal experience. The wisdom imparted may begin with a teaching on a text or commentary but usually proceeds far beyond. The student is charged (as Buddha Shakyamuni encouraged all to do) to question, examine, and test all knowledge as one would examine gold to ascertain if the wisdom is genuine or beneficial for the particular person's life. There is no question that each being is responsible for his or her own choices. Further, in the teachings I have received, karma does not predetermine circumstances or events in one's life but rather urges one to the metaphorical place or state where choice is made, with the hope the choice will be made with discernment for the benefit of all.

Your reply and observations are appreciated.

Peace, love, joy for all beings,
Dixie
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Post by Robert G. » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 am

Vissi, I always love it when you chime in <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> Please forgive my ignorance, but you mentioned that producing a scholarly work might weigh against achieving the goals of vajra. If you can put it in a nutshell, what are those goals?

Also, I was curious to know if you take the idea of different levels of being or altered states of consciousness to be literal or as metaphorical of the changing of ones conceptual framework over time, an experience which is common to all of us.

Thanks - Robert

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Robert G. on 2006-01-16 02:42 ]</font>
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