Following the Marga

Joseph Campbell believed that "...each of us has an individual myth that's driving us, which we may or may not know." This forum is for assistance and inspiration in the quest to find your own personal mythology.

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Following the Marga

Post by JamesN. » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:10 pm

The focus of this thread is about exploring the concept or term: " Marga " .

From page 83; " Reflections an the Art of Living: A Joseph Campbell Companion ":
( Jung speaks of the curve of a lifetime being divided in half: the first half is the time of relationships, and the second half is the time of finding the sense of life within; or, as the Hindu's say, " following the marga " -the path, the footsteps of the human experience you've had -to your own inward life. )
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In this forum there have been numerous posts exploring many various aspects of the individual interpretation of a ( personal mythology ); what it is, what it means, and all kinds of dimensional aspects of it's experience. And one of the key issues that keeps returning to me is: " How or what is the vehicle or psychological approach one uses in pursuing this? " ( Here is the key phrase that ( to me ) unlocks or cracks open the doorway of the threshold to understanding at least part of this perspective. ):

" following the marga " -the path, the footsteps of the human experience you've had -to your own inward life.

Contemplation and reflection are most often some of the western terms used to identify or describe the psychological position or viewpoint. But in some of the more eastern views; such as from India or Asia ; as in the Confucian, Hindu, or Buddhist traditions for instance; the distinctions might be constructed from a different; and slightly more impersonal and nuanced perception.

Now I should also point out here that for some it might be difficult to remove some of the more spiritual; and indeed for many ( religious ) aspects from the mental or psychological distinctions within this framework. ( But ); in consideration of Joseph Campbell's close philosophical connections with Carl Jung's understanding of these mental life processes and what IMHO he was trying to reveal; I think this will be important to remember for clarity's sake.

It might be worth mentioning here that a critical realization for Jung had to do with this focus in discovering his own personal myth as he points out in: " Memories, Dreams, and Reflections "; when he says he made this his " task of tasks " to discover and changed the course of his thinking. Indeed as Joseph Campbell refers in both " The Power of Myth " and " The Hero's Journey " his moment of understanding arrived when he noticed what it meant to people who live with a mythology and those who lived without one. And then Joe quotes Jung: " When I asked myself by what myth I was living and I found out that I did not know. So I made this my ( task of tasks to find out ). "

Now from this idea of a personal psychological view for instance; the term Marga or Pathway; and any resulting " transformation of consciousness " would come from this shift to a more internalized focus. One particular distinction I think Joseph Campbell would have referred to in describing the larger life " Call to Adventure " would be " The Monomyth " or " Hero's Journey ". But there perhaps remains another question considering this metaphoric reference of the " Marga " that has to do to the perception of what your end self-realization is focused on and how this is utilized in the achievement of your goal. And that has to do with how you evolve along the way; ( IMHO ). And with this in mind it is important to make the distinction between knowing what it is that is pushing you from the inside and where you want to go. And so along with this realization is the psychological shift in emphasis from the external to the internal in the individual's trajectory of personal transformation that is the focus of where the concept of " The Marga " is centered.

For one thing as is mentioned above; the mental orientation of the individual's life focus changes as they age; and that is a huge dynamic for an individual to contend with as they travel through the different stages of the life process. ( In youth it should be pointed out here that the energies of life are projected outward to seek the world and what that individual's potential may become. As the curve of lifespan begins to reach it's peak and starts to curve downward the individual's focus begins to turn inward toward assimilation of the life experiences that have been accumulated and the meanings to which they reference from within.


IMHO this is where the direction of the thread topic quote is pointing towards in relationship to the later life aspect; ( but ) in a more general sense I think the understanding of the relevance of " Marga " ( as a concept ) is relative to the search for one's self-identity, " individual personal myth " , and ( meaning ) is what I'm also trying to get at here.


From the Hero's Journey:
" In the journey of the soul itself the way out is the way in. It is a movement beyond the known bounderies of faith and convention, the search for what matters, the path of destiny, the route of individuality, the road of original experience, a paradigm for the forging of counciousness itself: in short the hero's journey."

Also from the Hero's Journey:
" The seeker is the mystery which the seeker seeks to know. The hero's journey is a symbol that binds in the original sense of the word, two distinct ideas; the spiritual quest of the ancients, with the modern search for identity. "



( My apologies if perhaps my effort is a little clumsy in my attempt to get at this but hopefully the point comes across. )


And so to you my good mythological companions: " What does this quote from Joseph Campbell evoke or resonate within you? :)
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Post by CarmelaBear » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:31 pm

I'm not sure I understand all the complexities you describe, but experience has created a path that I can see more clearly in the second half of life..

In the first half of life, it appears that we findl it necessary to make accommodations in order to survive. In the second half, we claim our own lives in response to the realization that relationships have a shelf life. Individuation happens.

Discovering our own mythology may be a process of coming to terms with limits that finally bring previously important matters to a grinding halt.

Sooner or later, we assume responsibility for our own journey.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by JamesN. » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:53 pm

CarmelaBear wrote:I'm not sure I understand all the complexities you describe, but experience has created a path that I can see more clearly in the second half of life..

In the first half of life, it appears that we findl it necessary to make accommodations in order to survive. In the second half, we claim our own lives in response to the realization that relationships have a shelf life. Individuation happens.

Discovering our own mythology may be a process of coming to terms with limits that finally bring previously important matters to a grinding halt.

Sooner or later, we assume responsibility for our own journey.

~

Thank you for your thoughts on this Carmela. And I think I should point out here that my interpretations on any of these themes are just that; ( my own personal views or impressions as I am exploring these ideas; and not implied as any thing more ). But in saying that I should mention that I have felt for a long time that a thread focused on this particular theme might possibly be helpful; no matter at what level the background of knowledge anyone may have. And I should also mention that it was " BlitheSpirit's excellent idea in her thread of the ( " feminine " perspective of Personal Myth ) that provided this inspiration for my idea concerning " The Marga " or Pathway that I feel should also be acknowleged here.

So with that said returning to the issue at hand; I think one of the main insights that Jung saw to keep in mind is that he realized the concern he was dealing with went much much deeper psychologically than just surface behavior and what seemed to be the motivations behind it. Joseph Campbell has stated on numerous occasions: " Everyone has something that is driving them. ". And the process of finding out ( what that " internal something is " ) can be seen in this particular reference as Carl Jung's understanding of a personal myth.

This is not to be confused with a religious interpretation for a life model or code of behavior; but more with a metaphorically or symbolically and emotionally informed connection that is rendered through a interpreted response; ( read " archetype " here ); which is held deep within the psyche; and IMHO can be looked upon in one sense as: ( what " drives " the " car " on a road to a specific destination ). At least this is what the interrelationship between " personal myth " and " marga " and " life course " seem to indicate to me.

One of the things that has been very helpful to me as I continue to explore this concept has been " Pathways To Bliss "; ( specifically chapters: 4,5, and 6 ). These chapters deal specifically with opening up much of Joseph Campbell's view concerning Carl Jung's interpretation of these inner realms of psychological behavior and how they are connected to the larger overview and understanding of the life processes that we all must face and have to deal with and are interpreted through Joe in a much more relative and accessible way.

So Carmela what I have gotten from some of these insights between Joe and Jung is that in general; yes there is a change of individual perspective from this approach; but with the difference being seen as also being a revelation within the life insights gained as much or along with the idea of coming to terms with it. ( As Joe has pointed out in Diane Osbon's: " Reflections on the Art of Living ": This later stage should be seen not as in the achievements not attained; but as a time of blooming; of realization; and of the assimilation of some of life's gifts and what you have received within it's messages; as well as the understanding of the ( realities ) of what lies before us as we start the journey towards our final destinations. ) At least those are my impressions from it.

( I must pause here for a moment to pay tribute and thank Cindy for her invaluable work concerning Carl Jung on these forums. Her efforts with others and her contribution of the tremendously insightful: " Jung in the Weeds " threads have been indispensable in providing this necessary bridge towards a lay understanding of these concepts. And without which many of us would still be groping around in the dark for clues; myself most definitely included. :wink: )

So what I'm striving for in this humble attempt here is to suggest to anyone else; ( as well as myself ); that may be exploring their own sense of an interior personal journey: what this is, what is driving it, and where they may be or want to go; ( that this thread may be of some service towards that end ).
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Post by jufa » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:27 pm

If the Marga is a path, and its central point is found within the myth or metaphor one lives and gains knowledge and wisdom of concerning ones goal of determining their cause and purpose, then information from Jung and Campbell pertain only to their lives. However, as they found information and knowledge of many paths, such were only pointers which gave visions of hope (IMHO), that the true Marga is found only when ones Spirit is balanced, in their consciousness equally in intake and projected demonstration to all rhythmic waves which principle the universe.

Sentient being have been directed to their higher consciousness since the time of Seth. Nevertheless, few stories there be (and these stories are categorized myth and metaphors), which give direct directions to show how one can walk out of this world with a glorified body such as Enoch and Yeshua for example.

Nonetheless, Marga is authentic. But, (IMHO) it is so only as an informative word which indicate the journey to find It and walk upon It, begins when one has garnered all the information and wisdom they can to move beyond the mind into the inner self.

One cannot get bogged down in another man's journey and become stagnant in interpretation without movement. For as The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám states:
“THE MOVING FINGER WRITES, HAVING WRIT, MOVES ON”
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Post by JamesN. » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:16 pm

Thank you Jufa for your thoughtful input on this.

Indeed you bring up some interesting aspects to consider which raise a couple of things that might worth mentioning while exploring these ideas.

One being of course that this road we are traveling has been traversed by " legions of souls " across " endless oceans of time " and that we are most definitely ( not ) the first ones to consider these propositions; ( no )?

Second of course which you thoughtfully referred to; is that our experience is also " subject " by it's very nature and being the " curious " creatures that we have evolved into are constantly striving forward in our efforts to understand the boundaries of our experience as well as our existence.

As to the interpretive aspect I think this is where we all may be able to benefit from each other's point's of view. And although there may be some conflicting points of agreement concerning what is more accurate or correct here; I specifically liked the idea of the word " authentic " you referred to which to me connects with Joseph Campbell's concept of personal experience; ( as in " an individual's authentic authorship " or biography ). And that to me is " dead center " to where I think part of this emphasis on " The Marga " as a personal experience points toward. :idea:
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Post by jufa » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:13 am

What is missed, seeing this from my point of view in the regards to Marga, in the telling of the stories, in all the counseling, preaching, psychological and philosophical teaching is the ease which people move into conformity. Everyone forgets when they started out in life, they grasped the hand of those above them and were pulled up from the level they were on to the level of the one who hand pulled them up. This has been man's continuous story of evolution, advancement, and enlightenment. And each uplifting has been done alone, yet upon stepping on the shoulders of the forerunners to the light.

"Man is the individuality of all personality. The wisdom and knowledge, and the Manchurian Candidate, or non-conformist Martin Luther's, or Einstein's which stepped out of the ranks of following 'they say' to become they own stylish of thinking, of creating and following the Mystical Vision the universe provided for them who dared to ride the thunder bolt of Silence lightening which, stretched and reach from the earth to the heavens and back into the invisible core, where minds of the Shakespeare's, Da Vinci's Galileo's are found, and others of such ilk who changed the world for better for those who said it was impossible to do.

And in the final analysis, men as Jung, Campbell, J.Krishnamurti, The Dalai Lama, all reveal we, as individuals are the only conscious which the Spirit can reveal our genuine Marga through. Yet, the reality of it all is, only our inner Spirit is the source which provide conscious awareness for revealing ITS mysterious journey."
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Post by JamesN. » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:17 am

Jufa; here is what I see from your post that relates to the Marga aspect.

There are some things you bring up in your post that I think highlight what I would refer to as somewhat different challenges to be overcome within the Marga approach. One might be that of slaying the Dragon's of our own Inner Kingdom; our own lack of awareness, ignorance, and misguided self-righteous piety; our insecurities and lack of compassion for others; and the list of course could continue on from there.

But there also is a kind of mission or objective I think implied within this inner trajectory that this " Chrysalis Process " of change that the Marga or pathway of later life evokes. For to prepare for this new reflective inner journey one is faced with not only the requirement of answering the same questions as others millennia before us have faced; but also the call or challenge of meeting it's new demands; ( all of this which by the way includes not only the consequences of our past; but the watchful eye of the ever-present " Spector " of our own mortality waiting for us on the sidelines of the stage of life's great drama of which we all play a role ).

In slaying the dragons and demons masked within our own persona and inner ego one is afforded the opportunity for a new growth of consciousness in the way they see and experience life. And as Joseph Campbell has mentioned: the " Garden " becomes available as experienced through this new consciousness and life becomes affirmative. But it is only through this understanding of perceptional change of transcendent transformation; ( which may often include suffering; the suffering that accompanies new growth ); that the Gate to this garden that the demons guard are opened and entrance given.

As you point out the great minds that have come before us indeed play an important part in our journey; but in trying to understand the meaning of what Joseph Campbell was referring to what I got from him was that ( the challenge remains for all of us in how we receive and respond to life ). Said another way; the true priviledge of a lifetime is in accepting the challenge of finding out and becoming " the person you were meant to be ". And that this challenge represents in my understanding what the " Call of the Quest of the Adventure of the Hero's Journey " is referring to. And also that through this discovery of the challenge of the " Hero's Quest " that is evoked within one's character within our common shared struggles; that this " Quest " is played out through one's own unique and individual life. And that by answering this " Call " not only are we are better able to realize what Joseph Campbell's message was of " The Monomyth "; we are better able to bring our own special gifts into the world thereby contributing to the one great story that we all share.


Cheers :)
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Post by jufa » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:47 am

James, the challenges you observe from my words are the challenges every individual live and die with. They are there, as you have noted from the lowest base to the highest peak. Always the warrior sword is drawn to slay the dragons guarding the Marga to his true love occupying his inner depth. These challenges have never been old nor new, for there is nothing new or old under the sun. And yes, they stand as cherubims guarding the Marga of the tree of life.

The tree of life has never been denied to anyone. It is the breath of life itself. Within and upon every breath man inhale and exhale, lies his strength of will "to be or not to be." There be the rub. "To be or not to be what"?

James, allow me leave-way to state the challenge in this manner. From my perspective, those seeking to touch the invisible reality of themselves, dire need becomes a necessity. Necessity because those bold enough to mount the lynching tree, and crucify the Son of Man, will be granted the honor of standing before the door of their throne room, and privileged to open it unto "the way, the truth and the life" of their inner Spirit. The glory which will consume one, in that instant, will make one understand why the dire need for necessity of "dying for my sake" to be the only path, the Marga which will allow one to go beyond the mind and transcend into the thought of God. Only by mounting the lynching tree and crucifying the Son of Man will the Spirit within ascend "The Son of God" into the everlasting arms of He who SPEAK THE WORD "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," and stop the human intellectual search to find a god which is not outside of them.
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Post by JamesN. » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:09 pm

Jufa.

I'm sorry but you have left me completely baffled as to what you are saying here. I tried to address what I thought were the points you suggested but alas as we age sometimes things may slip by us. Perhaps I myself do not quite understand or extract your meaning here. But then I also have to remind myself that sometimes I may not be as " lucid " in my explanations as I think I am to others and to summon a better effort at being understood. Also you may have been trying to convey something else entirely of which is obvious by my reply here that I have been unable to ascertain from your post.

That said if from my post you seem to think we are in disagreement then perhaps we should just acknowledge the separate points of view and move on. I am reminded of a page from the discourse thread in which both Cindy and Clemsy offer 2 posts back to back after which both " you " and Clemsy confirm this highlighting of these issues of miscomunication which I will provide below. ( I also think this is very important information for anyone participating on these forums to become familiar with as well. ) Since both you and I have participated in these particular " Discourse Thread " discussions I think it specifically draws attention to how important and vital both " tone " and effort towards respect and " clarity " contribute to this place we care about so much. So with that in mind I will say if for some reason I have offended you in some way then please accept my humble apologies for it was certainly not my intention in doing so.


http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic. ... &start=255


Back many years ago when associate JR and I collaborated with the staff on the creation of this particular forum it was felt this topical area addressed a very important and specific need which seems to have proven out over the years. It represents a very special place to me since at that time there was not an avenue that focused on the spiritual or personalized experience being explored as an individual encountered their own private transformational process through the exposure to Joseph Campbell's themes.

http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1761


So I hope this helps to better illustrate why I feel such a closer connection to this issue than I might normally towards other ones.


Namaste
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Post by jufa » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:45 pm

James, I do not see the separation of thoughts here. Perhaps the confusion stems from your attempt to address my statement from an overlooked view you have presented:
" The seeker is the mystery which the seeker seeks to know. The hero's journey is a symbol that binds in the original sense of the word, two distinct ideas; the spiritual quest of the ancients, with the modern search for identity. "
The topic concerns the Marga. You speak of a psychological mystical path which is distinct idea #1. I delve into the spiritual quest which is distinct idea #2. I see no disagreement. I see only your failure to acknowledge distinct idea # 2 exist by being baffled when presented. Truly the pathway is both mystical and spiritual. So where has communication failed?

Should I have misunderstood your direction and not addressed it properly, then I apologize, put me back on course should you feel this conversation can proceed. Also, consider the two distinct ideas which Campbell speaks of which favors both quest equally.

Should you feel my presentation are not valid to this topic , I will not protest. I will dismiss myself "without prejudice." :)

Thank you!
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Post by JamesN. » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:10 pm

Jufa.

This is a much much better and clearer description to me of your response from what I had originally drawn my impressions from. And I might add; I am especially heartened by your efforts in " reaching out " to help us both resolve my concerns. I cannot address this topic at the moment; but I will return later and pick this back up.

But for now; I had to let you know how appreciative I am of your desire to clear this up in such a warm and thoughtful manner. Thank you for this; for yes as you might have guessed; I was completely in the dark and had gotten an entirely different picture from what you were describing and was very concerned about this.


In the meantime I saw this post of yours on the previous page in the link I posted which I think may provide some insight for any posters to consider; ( myself included of course ); which I thought you expressed quite well:

Cindy B. wrote:
Speaking for myself Jufa, if the poster's writing style is particularly unique, I sometimes have trouble understanding what the actual meaning may be that's trying to be conveyed. Often shorter sentences and more punctutation helps me in this case, particularly if the typical sentence structure is long and appears to be of the "stream of consciousness" style. Sometimes in such cases, but not always, of course, I'll not read the entire post because too many assumptions may be required to try to make sense of what the author intends. Varying educational levels has never been an issue for me, though.

Cindy :)

Jufa wrote:
Writing styles, I have found, are always a problem Cindy. When they become a problem for me is when writer who do not generally write in the abstract, do so. For myself, who knows have an abstract style of writing, I find abstraction used in such instances out of place. Some of I.Kant's, Einstein's, T. Edison's and even yours [please do not take what I state about you condescending, Please.] when addressing some of Campbell's and Jung's presentation I just did not get. But then I turn to the subject matter and follow your particular flow of dialog, and I relate from that angle, but not to the wording and style presented.

Myself, I have trouble keeping up with my mind. Mostly when I write, I am a mile ahead of me, and I type trying not to loose the trend of thinking. I loose complete word placement and phases a lot, and I mean a lots. And when I return for proof reading, that in itself take me on another journey, and I'm lost. Figuring people will do as I do in observing and following the dialog, I assume understanding of my position will be had.[/quote]

____________________________________________________________________


Cheers :)
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Post by JamesN. » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:03 am

Hey Jufa I'm back and I'm doing a little rearrange carry-over from my last post to pick up where I left off.

Let me first start off by saying that of course my posting has room for improvement just as anyone who participates on these forums. And if part of the fault of this lies with me then I certainly have no problem with accepting that. This was obviously a simple mistake of misunderstanding and clarity; and for me to assume any sort of oblivious immature tone of insensitive behavior would not only be rude but unkind and utterly ridiculous in it's assumption. And so you know; Jufa; I very much appreciate your efforts in trying to address this before it developed any further. Now on to the business at hand.


When I first started posting here I had a " real " problem with an issue along this line concerning the way in which I posted. A fellow associate reached out and helped me and because of that person's kindness it made a tremendous difference with my whole writing trajectory. I spend a lot more time editing and scrutinizing my posts now; with much more thought and deliberation put into them; and " hopefully " they come out with a little more comprehensive, cohesive, and clearer presentation; ( at least compared to what they were before ). As a matter of fact my main problem now is I have difficulty leaving them alone. ( " Shorter sentences " are also a development in the works. ) Incidentally Clemsy has some great insights concerning the craft of writing on these forums that have influenced me over time since he utilizes them with his teaching methods for his students. And I think that the challenge for many of us in writing and trying to get our meaning effectively across lies in the way we attempt to combine what thoughts our minds are processing and at the same time are trying to interpret them through our own unique individual voice and point of view; but what I think is important to remember here is that it is good to always try to improve one's ability in expressing clarity in communication skills. This has been an important concern that has been brought up before time and again across the forums; not only in the discourse threads ( Note to myself; a lot more work still required on that one. :roll: ) My skill level could maybe use some updating after today; huh? :wink:


" Syntax " matters here in this regard as you can see since it lies at the root of what just happened. To answer your questions earlier about addressing the various points you were focusing on; to be quite honest I could barely penetrate the syntax of your post to discern accurately in my own interpretation what you were saying. And now that you have taken some time to lay this out a little more clearly I can better understand your premise and at least some of the things you are trying to express. ( And yes now that we have some clarity I think in a general sense we are much closer in agreement with our views as you suggested.


A couple of things that might be worth pointing out here about what we just went through is: # 1 ) Cindy's point about writing and who is reading it on the other end is well made.

# 2 ) I don't want this thread to take on the demeanor and atmosphere of a " Forensics Debate " because that is not what I feel this topic is about at all. I think that it's approach should be more along the line of: ( an exploratory and mutually supportive series of focused discussions ) concerning the understanding of what " the marga " means as applied to the individual " hero's journey " in the sense that Joseph Campbell understood it. And then to open it out from there; which by the way; I think got off to a pretty good start in the overall view of things.


Jufa your point about the spiritual aspect I think is very well taken; for if there is a dimension that exemplifies man's inner desire " to understand " I think it is that one. And indeed as you suggested; ( if I get your meaning ); is described as the " crossroads " where these two ideas in the quote you were referring to " intersect ". And Yes I think it is very " mystical " if you mean by that referring to " life's mystery " that we all are riding on as Joseph Campbell stated.

I hope this covers most of the issues concerned; but if not we can certainly pick this back up and continue. I will check back soon for I have more to add here but for now; Jufa thank you again for your warm and respectful response to this misunderstanding; for it is very appreciated.



Namaste :)



Addendum: Jufa as to a further discussion of ideas #1 & #2 we can resume them later for it is late and I must retire. Best Regards

Here is a slight addition I should also add to the above:

However I think along with what is being considered that it is very important to emphasize in referring to points #1 & #2; is that I also feel the " psychological dynamic or aspect " plays a ( critical ) role within this inner landscape which is where Carl Jung's insight's come into play and which was also contained within Joe's overall theories. And that the spiritual aspect is not the only dominate factor; nor is the mystical in relationship to how we are accessing these themes relative to today's modern realities that we are discussing. And this is referred to in the first quote of those two that I mentioned:

" In the journey of the soul itself the way out is the way in. It is a movement beyond the known bounderies of faith and convention, the search for what matters, the path of destiny, the route of individuality, the road of original experience, a paradigm for the forging of counciousness itself: in short the hero's journey."
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Post by jufa » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:34 pm

James, with no disrespect, my view of your post immediately above addressed to me was over the top. This subject does not require teaching, especially when no post has been off topic. Where the confusion developed from - confusion concerning you only - was your singular view of considering your own topic from a partial eye of interpreting two other view point, when they themselves were not partial.
( Jung speaks of the curve of a lifetime being divided in half: the first half is the time of relationships, and the second half is the time of finding the sense of life within; or, as the Hindu's say, " following the marga " -the path, the footsteps of the human experience you've had -to your own inward life. )

" In the journey of the soul itself the way out is the way in. It is a movement beyond the known boundaries of faith and convention, the search for what matters, the path of destiny, the route of individuality, the road of original experience, a paradigm for the forging of consciousness itself: in short the hero's journey."
We are not strangers to one another. And because we have communicate, my style of writing too is not strange to you. Moreover neither is the spiritual circle of my writing a mystery to you. Now with this said, from this point on the topic should be the focus point and Marga of our communication. Should you deem to carry it forward, or should my language be a problem, as my writing style, what can I say? I respect you no less.

In response to the topic. Man's journey through, and experience of living life, cannot be traveled or lived with a permanent companion other than Christ, the living Word or Marga. Christ has always been the eternal Marga moving in the infinity of God's Spirit, which has infinitely been the path to be followed.

Peace
:)
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:59 am

Jufa;

As I have mentioned the respectful tone and " later " efforts at clarity you put forth up to the present is certainly appreciated; ( however ); just so you know I have been discussing this with a moderator from the very beginning to make sure I was not being oblivious to this concern. My efforts to properly identify this particular issue of " syntax " is the main reason I brought up the illustration from the Discourse discussions. To highlight the problem I utilized a moderators suggestion and your very own reply to emphasize my point. I even provided my own personal experience as an example of what I myself had to go through in learning about how the focus of ( how ) people communicate " indeed matters to the other people being engaged ". And I should also mention that once I put forth that effort to address it they immediately responded in appreciation.

There is no ill will here directed towards you about this; ( but ) as You and I have both discussed; the " syntax issue " within your writing style ( is ) at the " root " of this concern. ( Am I a great example of clarity? Of course not. Do I miss things? Yes. ) But I try to work at improving and getting better with this; and yes at times my syntax is convoluted or I miss punctuation; I leave a word or two out; or go on way too long and pack too much within with my sentences with paragraphs that would put someone to sleep. ( But I keep working to improve because it's important. )

I am sorry if what I have said before seems to be too didactic or over-the-top since you apparently feel that the problem we have been discussing pertains to me and not the issue I have raised and therefore not something you care to address. That is up to you to decide. Just be clear about the point I am making on this which is: ( how you write and what you choose to say is not what is being addressed; but the effort at being " understood " is ). It is considerate of others to make that effort and everyone must try or the whole idea behind this place won't work.

Occasionally there are departures from this protocol and that is when the moderators are needed. No one is perfect here; but we all have something to say. And listening; hearing; and thinking of who is on the other end of what you are speaking to means a lot; not only to them but to those around them who are participating.

Jufa as you have said no disrespect is implied here. And if you choose to continue on this thread all I ask is: To remember the guidelines and be respectful. Make the effort to be understood. Bring your ideas to share. Being mindful is not such a hard thing is it? It's time to move on.

I have gone on long enough about this and I'm not going to turn this thread into a back and forth about something that is either going to be addressed or it isn't. As far as I'm concerned the matter is now closed. The choice is yours.
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne
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Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:03 pm

Jufa, as James started this thread it is for him to say what's on topic or not. So it is up to you to construct your posts accordingly.

Cheers,
Clemsy
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Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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