Mythology and Religion: In The News

What needs do mythology and religion serve in today's world and in ancient times? Here we discuss the relationship between mythology, religion and science from mythological, religious and philosophical viewpoints.

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MasterYoda
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Post by MasterYoda » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:59 pm

Religion of Upper Egypt is not stating fact on page 11, it is a myth.

What is the ISBN number of the book and the date of publication?
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Post by jufa » Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Please note MasterY that I understand what you are attempting to present as truth is typical rhetoric without evidence. And as the famous athesis Christopher Hitchens stated:
"The absent of evidence, is the evidence of absence.".


I acknowledge the following, and please note in the upper left hand co rner what is stated:
Is it true that there is no evidence that Moses ever existed?
In: Tanakh and Talmud, Old Testament

Opinion

The story of Moses is absolutely central to Judaism. Moses spoke to God and followed his commands. He led the people out of Egypt and witnessed many miracles in the wilderness. Moses built the Ark of the Covenant as God commanded and received the ten commandments. But there is no evidence that Moses ever existed.

Exodus 12:40-41 says that the Hebrews spent 430 years in Egypt. And according to Genesis, Moses' grandfather, Kohath, was alive at the time of the migration to Egypt and lived 133 years, while Moses' father, Amran, lived 137 years. So, Moses must have been born sometime between 15 years and 270 years after the arrival in Egypt. Even assuming the patriarchs really lived to improbably great ages, Moses died, aged 120 years, at least 40 years before the Exodus. Some say even the Bible itself proves that the story of Moses, the Patriarch who led the people out of Egypt, could not be true. The biblical authors had no computers to check their work, but could rely on most people of their time being even less able to check.

The related question, "Is it true that there is no archaeological evidence that the Children of Israel wandered in the wilderness for forty years?" goes some way to explain the lack of evidence for the Exodus.
I see you spoke on one question I presented to you but ignored the question:
"What is the range of the human being?"
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Post by jufa » Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:23 pm

In bringing my participation in this non-factual subject I present the following on my way out:
Moses
Hebrew liberator, leader, lawgiver, prophet, and historian, lived in the thirteenth and early part of the twelfth century, B. C.

Name
Moshéh (M. T.), Mouses, Moses. In Ex., ii, 10, a derivation from the Hebrew Mashah (to draw) is implied. Josephus and the Fathers assign the Coptic mo (water) and uses (saved) as the constituent parts of the name. Nowadays the view of Lepsius, tracing the name back to the Egyptian mesh (child), is widely patronized by Egyptologists, but nothing decisive can be established.

Sources
To deny or to doubt the historic personality of Moses, is to undermine and render unintelligible the subsequent history of the Israelites. Rabbinical literature teems with legends touching every event of his marvellous career: taken singly, these popular tales are purely imaginative, yet, considered in their cumulative force, they vouch for the reality of a grand and illustrious personage, of strong character, high purpose, and noble achievement, so deep, true, and efficient in his religious convictions as to thrill and subdue the minds of an entire race for centuries after his death. The Bible furnishes the chief authentic account of this luminous life.
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Post by jufa » Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:35 pm

Do not want to exit without giving you the information you asked for
Egyptian Mythology and Egyptian Christianity
by Samuel Sharpe
London J.R. Smith
[1863]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This short work on Egyptian religion from the middle of the 19th Century was written at a time when the subject was just beginning to be understood by modern scholars, due to the recent decipherment of the hieroglyphs. Although scholarly and thorough, the information in this text should be cross-checked with later works. The best part may be the funky illustrations, all of which are in the public domain.
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MasterYoda
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Post by MasterYoda » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:18 pm

jufa

You are stupid. Your source 1863... Before modern scholarship established that the bible is not history, it's mythology.

Read the collective works of Joseph Campbell. Try some sources less than 100 years old. Here's one:

"The biographies of saviors are symbolic of the meaning of the saviors teaching. It's not like Carl Sandberg's Lincoln where you get actual events from the person's life. It has nothing to do with the life of the individual; it has to do with the implications of the life."

Joseph Campbell -- The Transformation of Myth through time.

Listen, Idiot. This is a Joseph Campbell site. Learn what Joe was about and read his works before you continue to make an ass of yourself.

Modern scholarship begins in the 20th century realizing that the Bible is not history and virtually every character in it is not historical, but is mythological.


I notice you didn't give me the date or ISBN number of your loser Religion book.
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Post by MasterYoda » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:20 pm

jufa

Loser, I did answer the question about the range of human lifespan.

Here it is again: 0 - 120 years so far.
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Post by MasterYoda » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:23 pm

The Old Testament and Talmud are not books of history and are not evidence that Moses ever existed.

He's a mythological character. Can you present any ancient historical source about Moses. NO! Because they don't exist.

The parts you refernce in the Bible were written around 300 BC. Moses is suppose to exist about 1300 BC. There are no sources from 1300 BC that reference any Moses.

You are a loser.
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Post by Clemsy » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:13 am

Whoa! Let's ease up there MasterYoda! I feel a Forum Guideline quote coming on....
Respect others: Should the opinion of another associate spark your anger or scorn, rather than your spirit or mind, please take a deep breath and consider before posting an ungenerous response. Flaming, the online equivalent of ranting, can seem terribly gratifying in the short term, but it is a very ineffective form of communication.
Let's keep the Higher Order in the conversations, okay?

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Post by Mark O. » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:02 am

As moderators, we are careful not to step on each others' toes. However, I ask Clemsy's forgiveness as I add to his comments in regard to your participation, MasterYoda. This paragraph follows the one Clemsy noted from the Forum Guidelines:
The same can be said of ad hominem attacks, wherein an associate who is unhappy with a fellow associate's post attacks the colleague him- or herself, rather than discussing the ideas in the post that caused distress. If something an associate says makes you feel like you want to howl, please do it in the privacy of your own home. If a primal scream or two doesn't clear your head, we strongly encourage you to take a page from kindergarten and take a time out - wait an hour, a day, however long it takes, until you can express your objections calmly and generously. If a Conversation becomes particularly heated, a moderator may call for a temporary cease-fire; please respect this request and use the time to calm down and sort out your thoughts.
You are clearly in violation of forum guidelines by using phrases such as "You are stupid - Idiot - Loser - You are a loser". Please respect our collective efforts - as Clemsy mentioned - to keep these Conversations of a Higher Order worthy of the their title.

Yours,
Mark
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Post by MasterYoda » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:42 am

OK.
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Post by jufa » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:51 pm

MasterY, you have yet to display definitive evidence your following words

To bad there never was a Moses, he is purely a mythological character. But, as Joseph Campbell said: "Facts don't seem to matter for religious people
have been substantiated by modern scholars, or that Campbell's definitively states the Bible is not history.

Moreover, you have yet to establish and refute by modern scholars, what J.R. Smith stated in 1863 is incorrect.

Just like to add, concerning all your statement, inclusive of those of myself that

A statement of belief is not a statement of knowledge - Dinesh Souza
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
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MasterYoda
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Post by MasterYoda » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:47 pm

jufa

You grammar and syntax is so poor, I can't understand what you are trying to say.
Yaba daba do - Fred Flintstone
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Post by Evinnra » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:45 am

MasterYoda wrote:jufa

You grammar and syntax is so poor, I can't understand what you are trying to say.
Yaba daba do - Fred Flintstone
Although we don't agree on everything with Jufa, I can understand Jufa perfectly. Perhaps it 'takes one to know one'? :evil:
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
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MasterYoda
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Post by MasterYoda » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:18 am

Evinnra

Okay, what does:

Just like to add, concerning all your statement, inclusive of those of myself that

mean?

'your' is plural. 'Statement' is singular.

what about: inclusive of those of myself that --

has no meaning in English.
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Post by Evinnra » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:56 am

MasterYoda wrote:Evinnra

Okay, what does:

Just like to add, concerning all your statement, inclusive of those of myself that

mean?

'your' is plural. 'Statement' is singular.

what about: inclusive of those of myself that --

has no meaning in English.
'Just like to add, concerning all your statement, inclusive of those of myself that'

MEANS

I am being polite and not throwing profanities/stones at you like you would deserve BUT all yours statements - including the statements that refer to my statements - are ....


And in case you didn't get MY meaning in the previous post; it requires a bit of kindness to actually understand other people while communicating. I for instance try to 'identify' with the person I'm attempting to understand and communicate with before throwing a hissy fit about my inability to understand him/her.

Satisfied?
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
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