Mythology and Religion: In The News

What needs do mythology and religion serve in today's world and in ancient times? Here we discuss the relationship between mythology, religion and science from mythological, religious and philosophical viewpoints.

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Neoplato
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Post by Neoplato » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:52 am

Israeli President Shimon Peres welcomed the address, calling Obama's words wise and courageous and saying the president "called for hard work on the part of all the sides involved with the advance of the peace process in the Middle East."

"The concept of peace was born in the Middle East and constitutes the cornerstone of all three monotheistic faiths -- Christian, Jewish and Muslim -- and it is incumbent on the people of Abraham to unite to meet the challenge and together realize the vision of a sustainable peace in the Middle East," he said.
If this isn't just an utter piece of nonsense! Peace was born in the middle east. Yeah, a "piece" of something was born there. I love what makes the news and is taken for fact across the globe. Let's throw out the eastern half of Asia where maybe this could be claimed. Of course in the western mindset, where only the big 3 are accepted, this probably makes sense to 90% of the population. :roll:
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Post by Evinnra » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:16 am

Yeah, the media at work! Look at our latest ‘pandemic’. The H1N1 virus for instance is almost unnoticeable for its mild symptoms in Australia – bar for the media alert and the WHO’s sombre tone of warning – but we are getting out knickers in a knot over the possible ‘second coming’ of this virus, which could be much worse. Then again, knowing the little I know about viruses, the second coming might be entirely undetectable ... There is indeed cause for concern; what if Ebola breaks free because we became de-sensitised by our respected communication authorities ‘crying wolf’ ? :shock:
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Post by Evinnra » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:31 am

"The concept of peace was born in the Middle East and constitutes the cornerstone of all three monotheistic faiths -- Christian, Jewish and Muslim -- and it is incumbent on the people of Abraham to unite to meet the challenge and together realize the vision of a sustainable peace in the Middle East," he said.
Neo/Julia, I don’t think Shimon Peres intended to suggest that ONLY the monotheists can live in peace. Peace does indeed come from the true belief in the One, and I think Shimon Peres simply intended to remind the Middle East of its original inheritance in order to unite the people. Have you anything against peace and unity, Neo/Julia? :?: :idea:
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Post by Neoplato » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:50 am

Neo/Julia, I don’t think Shimon Peres intended to suggest that ONLY the monotheists can live in peace. Peace does indeed come from the true belief in the One, and I think Shimon Peres simply intended to remind the Middle East of its original inheritance in order to unite the people. Have you anything against peace and unity, Neo/Julia?
I'm not always of the same mindset as Julia. We've had some definitional issues in the past, but we manage to work through them.

Of course I don't have anything against peace and unity, but I thought it was silly to make that claim. There has been nothing peaceful about the middle-east that I can recall. War, death and destruction seem to be dominent in that part of the world.

It seems to have begun with the invasion of Midian and Canaan and has been going on ever since the time of Moses. Only 3,000 years or so.

IMHO, peace is born in the individual. When the individual tries to convince the "social structure", that's where the problem begins.
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Post by Clemsy » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:18 pm

When Peres speaks I pay a bit more attention than I would to Sharon or Netenyahu. I often wonder what he would say if he was able to drop the diplomacy speak. Is his statement chauvinistic?
"The concept of peace was born in the Middle East..."
Well, there may be a historical argument for this, but I don't know what it is. Even if so, the irony of the comment overshadows whatever truth it may hold.

Perhaps he meant:
Judaism, Christianity and Islam are religions of peace. Jews, Christians and Muslims, however, are violent people. It is incumbent on the people of Abraham to unite to meet the challenge and together realize the vision of a sustainable peace in the Middle East.
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Post by jonsjourney » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:43 pm

Clemsy's adjustment to the statement rings more true, IMHO.

However, that sort of statement will not be uttered by anyone who is in power and is bound to one of those faiths. It is easy for Obama to have clear vision and criticize the short comings of each side because he need not seek election in the region. It is encouraging to see the positive reaction of young Muslims to his speech, a refreshing change that has not occured in my memory.

Criticizing the base is a good way to become part of the fringe, and often a good way to find oneself sidelined as irrelevant, which is why Middle Eastern leaders say what the electorate want to hear...sound familiar?

Obama's speech was clear and fair. The problem remains that those with their feet on the ground in Israel and Palestine have no interest in reconciliation, as is obvious by the continuation of land taking and settlement building by aggressive Jews and the continued bombing that always seems to occur the day after some sort of peace deal is struck in the region by Muslim fundamentalists. I wonder which is more 'prophetable', peace or conflict? :roll:
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Post by nandu » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:26 am

In recent times, there has been a concerted effort to market Islam as the "Religion of peace", somehow claiming that the terrorist attacks originating from the followers of that religion are no fault of the religion but of the individuals. But anyone who takes a dispassionate view of history can see that from their inception, the Abrahamic religions (including the love-professing Christianity) have been marked by violence.

But this marketing effort is good if it allows the moderates to move away from the path of violence without letting go of their religion. Intolerance of other faiths is the common denominator for monotheistic religions: "our" God is the "true" one, "their" God is "false". I don't see a change in the mindset of the majority of the followers of the big three in the near future. But if they'd allow the infidels to "go to hell" in peace, maybe we'd have peace on earth...

Nandu.
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Post by Evinnra » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:11 am

Neoplato wrote:

... Of course I don't have anything against peace and unity, but
IMHO, peace is born in the individual. ... .
On that we are as one. :wink:
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Post by Neoplato » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:56 am

But if they'd allow the infidels to "go to hell" in peace, maybe we'd have peace on earth...
Now there's a quote for the record books. :wink:
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Post by Neoplato » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:02 pm

On that we are as one.
I think we agree more than we disagree. :wink:
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Post by jonsjourney » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:43 pm

But if they'd allow the infidels to "go to hell" in peace, maybe we'd have peace on earth...
Fantastic Nandu. :idea:
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Post by Evinnra » Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:04 am

Neoplato wrote:
On that we are as one.
I think we agree more than we disagree. :wink:
That's what I thought untill you began to 'reason' like Julia. :!: Nobody can be the 'servant of two masters'.
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Post by Clemsy » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:53 am

That's what I thought untill you began to 'reason' like Julia.
Evinnra, the personal nature of these 'Julia' posts are of concern to the moderators.

You can stop now. This is an official call to cease fire.

Clemsy, as moderator

PS: I can only admire the quality of Julia's posts and the thought behind them.
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Post by Evinnra » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:19 am

Clemsy wrote:
That's what I thought untill you began to 'reason' like Julia.
Evinnra, the personal nature of these 'Julia' posts are of concern to the moderators.

You can stop now. This is an official call to cease fire.

Clemsy, as moderator

PS: I can only admire the quality of Julia's posts and the thought behind them.
Clemsy,
Is it much to ask from people that they remain consistent in their style of communication?
We all know that some people write better and some people write worse, some people reason better and some people reason worse. We can easily adjust our thinking process and communication mode to ANY requirements when we really wish to communicate with people. (For heaven’s sake, we can even communicate with animals if we try hard enough! ) I have my peculiar way of expression which is not equally liked by everybody here, but since we all have our peculiar styles, most of us act charitable with each other’s personal peculiarities. Bodhibliss for instance likes to express him self in a long-winded fashion – which style I never ever find long-winded but rather soothing and a pleasure to read – and NoMan often abruptly comes to the point, says what he must and then scoots off. Nandu is clever but stubbornly refuses to see the other person’s point, his personal style is to mask over every disagreements with feigned politeness, but over all what he writes is interesting. You my ‘dear friend’ always have fantastic pointers in all your contributions but sometimes you will communicate like if people are out there to hurt you. JJ has a studious reasoning style and often comes to agreement with people he doesn’t quite agree with, but he never makes a fuss about it. My personal favourite – for now – is SteveC, who can point to the very essence of issues at hand and invariably brings up a point that often makes me mull over the topic for weeks to come. In that ability he is very similar to Jufa, who is often difficult to understand at first reading but ALWAYS worth attempting to fully comprehend! Neoplato’s style stands out as the most intriguing - for me - because when I read his contributions, it is like reading my own thoughts in a much more eloquently expressed way. Perhaps it is because Neoplato is often very subtle and I’m not very good at being subtle. (Reading his posts is like when I was reading 1984, and I had the feeling that I wrote the book... stunning experience!) Julia has a brilliant mind but she chooses the way how things are being discussed and lets no-one off her hook. Unfortunately she has very few NEW ideas or perspectives to offer. The reason I don’t communicate with her lately is JUST that and not that I dislike her! She just picks apart terms and their meanings then assumes claims that were never intended by the other poster, then offers to agree to disagree and then’ that’s all folks’. Not much to gain from this kind of communicating except a bad taste in the mouth. I have my own peculiar style too, which is often an abrupt and ‘short-hand’ mode expression of what I believe to be the most essential points in a topic. I am bad, bad, bad opinionated and inflexible too. On occasion my crudely emotional style can be perceived as a rather clumsy way of expressing enthusiasm, (even border line case of ‘brown-nosing’) and I too am guilty of being stubborn just like Nandu and Julia are. (Perhaps that’s why we don’t communicate with each other lately, because all three of us are equally stubborn.)

Now, the reason I post this long explanation here is that Martin sent me a private message asking me to be more flexible in my attitude and follow your advice to cease fire. WHAT FIRE??? I’m not fighting, but merely avoiding disaster. I don’t believe it is much to ask from people to be consistent with WHO they are. If Neoplato or JJ or bg suddenly start sounding like Julia or Bodhibliss or SteveC, is it surprising that I am puzzled and incapacitated in my attempts to communicate? :oops: :?
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Post by Clemsy » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:53 am

Evinnra,

Please be aware that all three moderators are in firm agreement on this.

Choosing to not reply to associates whose style you don't care for is a fine strategy. But labeling an associate because of an assumed style, whether it be mine, Julia's, Bodhi's or whoever is not acceptable as it still comes down to a personal, certainly not an empirical, judgment on both associates.

Both JJ and Neo are writing as they've always written as far as we're concerned. Believing otherwise does not change the guideline to address the post.

As long as that's clear, there is no issue.

Back to the topic at hand, please.

Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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