One Mythology - One Religion - One Cosmology - One People

What needs do mythology and religion serve in today's world and in ancient times? Here we discuss the relationship between mythology, religion and science from mythological, religious and philosophical viewpoints.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

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Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy » Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:02 pm

Hi Native and a late but warm welcome to the JCF Forums.

I read your initial post and meant to reply but, alas, the worldly flurry of this and that kept me at bay! Even now I just have a few moments, so first:

The there are a couple ways to quote: hit the quote button at the top of the posting window, paste the text right after it, then hit the quite button again at the end or, paste the text, highlight the text, then hit the quote button.

Either way, bbcode is similar to html in that you open with a tag (code surrounded by brackets), then close with the same tag but with a back slash before the code.

You can find really easy directions right HERE. Have fun and play. It'll be second nature before you know it.
Why is it that the answers are so difficult to find?
Lots of reasons I think! My favorite is that easy answers are so boring! Humans love puzzles and, most especially, tragedy and comedy (in the Greek sense). I also figure that once you gt past all the metaphors and mythic symbolism that are the guideposts to THE ANSWERS, all the various masks, in layer upon layer like peeling an onion, of god you get to that Place. And what's there?

<silence>

That spooks people out. As Bodhi said above,
the "aha!" moment we experience on first hearing or reading Joe's work isn't because he's teaching something brand new, but because he's putting into words thoughts and understandings we have arrived at through our own perceptions, studies, and life experiences. When I first encountered Campbell, I was excited because he was able to express and crystallize ideas that had been floating in my heart and my head for a long time - a powerful affirmation of what I already believed.
Same for me, but more specifically, through Campbell's work I found the connection between the myths I'd loved since I was a small child and the thoughts that eventually brought me past my Catholic indoctrination, through some dabbling with Eastern mysticism and eventually to the edge where I could see that it all points to that beyond thought and words.

Since then it's been a matter of capturing the 'sweet spot of the world', as it were. Campbell put it all together in a way that really hit my fundamental frequency.

I've been resonating ever since.

Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by freespiritintraining » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:46 pm

Hello all;

Of course with mythology being about the reflections of the "gods" (both good and bad) or psychologically; archetypes (see Jung) that we recognize in th reflection of our "selves" (or ego's) in others: Then it boils down to, who are your "evil archetypes"; what are your greatest (especially subconscious, unexamined) fears?

And the the mystery unfolds . . . .personally my greatest fears were the (archetypically; metaphorically, allegorically) "four horsemen of the apocalypse": the harbingers of all evil: self-deception, rationalizatioin, justification, and denial.

To the extent i continue to engage these inner evils is the extent that I also embrace them as part of the "human condition" that we all share.

Today I am at leasst an honest man, with some dignity, self-respect and self-esteem. I think the challenge I will embrace in the future is simply how to be a better friend. I think I already love "God" unconditionally . . . .

I hope that this helps . . .
May God Bless you And Those you Love And Care For: It does Anyway: Whether you Like it or Not.
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Post by Andromeda » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:10 pm

Native wrote:...Not just about you and me on different locations on different kontinents feeling the very same - but ALL people ALL over the Earth feeling and knowing the very same. Because we ALL have the very same Story of Creation in the same Galaxy in the same Solar System.
Now THAT was extremely cool... "aha!" :D
Envision a world as it should be. What we envision is what we create in the future.
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01. Milky Way Mythology

Post by Native » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:36 am

Dear Forum Friends,

I would like to introduce this topic because the Milky Way Mythology is almost forgotten, in spite of the fact that the Milky Way is connected very closely to the globally stories of Creation.

- Myths are not "ancient hearsayings", but real cosmological knowledge.

- When studying mythology, especially the Stories of Creation, it is very important to connect the right telling to the right celestial object.

All supreme deities and creator deities and archetypes are closely connected to the contours of the Milky Way that can be observed all around the Earth.

- As an introduction of this topic, take a good look at the contents here:

http://www.native-science.net/

- and at the other contents on this site.

- Post any kind of related replies and we will see where it brings us in order to have a good and constructive discussion of this very important issue.
Last edited by Native on Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards Ivar Nielsen
http://www.native-science.net
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02. Milky Way Myth Basics

Post by Native » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:38 am

Some basic informations regarding the Milky Way Mythology

When studying mythology, there seems to be a great interpretive confusion going on, where the mythical telling is disconnected to the right celestial objects.

1. From the many mythical and religious stories of Creation we have the telling of The first Light, the Primordial Light in the middle of our Galaxy, mythologically called the Primordial Mound, connected to the archetype of the Serpent Milky Way band that are vaulting around the Earth night celestial hemisphere. It is my firm conviction that these stories of Creation are mytho-cosmological connected to the Milky Way Centre.

2. Mythologically, the Earth night hemispheres are divided in a northern and southern hemisphere each with its own mythological stories and symbols connected to the Milky Way Myths.

3. The Earth northern night hemisphere shows the northern Milky Way contours of a white crescent figure seemingly revolving around the Earth celestial North Pole. This figure shows clearly a Star Map Atlas figure that can be taken for, and described as a great white male human-like being.

4. On the Earth southern hemisphere, the Milky Way contours shows a great white female- like crescent figure seemingly revolving around the Earth celestial South Pole.

5. These northern (The mythical Upperworld) and southern (The mythical Underworld) superior mythic archetypes revolving concepts are the largest mythological figures and are therefore mythologically called Giants and Supreme Deities which mythologically are connected to the Story of Creation, a story dealing with a time long before even the Earth; the Planets and the Sun was created.

6. Reading the many original stories of Creation, taking the telling and symbols for granted and connecting the telling to the Milky Way, it is very obvious that the modern mythic interpretation gets it wrong again and again.

It is also obviously very difficult for modern scholars and scientists to grasp the fact that ancient people possibly could have such cosmic knowledge, which in several cases are superior to modern scientific cosmological knowledge.

7. The worst mythological interpretative mistakes concern the general confusions where planets have overtaken the creative and qualitative forces of the Milky Way. Just because the planets once was given mythological names! Then all kind of astronomical and mythical mistakes can find place.

8. Milky Way matters are mythologically confused to be planetary or lunar matters. The mythical color of white becomes light of the Sun and solar deities; the Earth celestial pole circles becomes also the Sun or a star and, even a planet; the crescent Milky Way contour becomes all kind of descriptions concerning the Moon; Milky Way deities becomes lunar deities; and solar deities overtakes the qualities of Milky Way deities etc. etc. etc.

9. Therefore: When reading any myths, especially Creation Myths, connect these foremost to the Milky Way figures and symbols.

10. Having these paragraphs (and surely many more) in mind, I think we are on the right track in this discussion when reading and interpreting the myths and their cosmological meaning.
Last edited by Native on Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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03. Interpreting Deity Myths

Post by Native » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:19 pm

Deities Myth Example.

Analyzing the Babylonian Deity Attributes and their supposed connection to Planets.

(My remarks = AD)

Link and connecting links to Babylonian Astrology; planets and deities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian ... s_and_gods

Of the planets five were recognized planets: ”Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, Mercury and Mars to name them in the order in which they appear in the older cuneiform literature; in later texts Mercury and Saturn change places.

These five planets were identified with the gods of the Babylonian pantheon as follows:

Jupiter with Marduk,
Venus with the goddess Ishtar,
Saturn with Ninurta (Ninib),
Mercury with Nabu (Nebo),
Mars with Nergal.


AD: Strangely enough, the Earth itself is not directly mentioned here, but mythological it is often mentioned instead of the term of Primordial Soil, connected to the Story of Creation.

The movements of the Sun, Moon and five planets were regarded as representing the activity of the five gods in question, together with the moon-god Sin and the Sun-god Shamash, in preparing the occurrences on earth. If, therefore, one could correctly read and interpret the activity of these powers, one knew what the gods were aiming to bring about.

Babylonian Deities and qualities. (Are they Sun; Moon or Milky Way qualities?)

Analyzing Sin

1) Sin (Supposed Moon Deity)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_%28mythology%29 (Wiki=Moon-deity) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_deity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_deit ... ar_deities

Sin (Akkadian: Su'en, SÃn) or Nanna was the god of the moon in Mesopotamian mythology. Nanna is a Sumerian deity, the son of Enlil and Ninlil, and became identified with Semitic Sin. The two chief seats of Nanna's/Sin's worship were Ur in the south of Mesopotamia and Harran in the north.

He is commonly designated as En-zu, which means "lord of wisdom". During the period (c.2600-2400 BC) that Ur exercised a large measure of supremacy over the Euphrates valley, Sin was naturally regarded as the head of the pantheon. It is to this period that we must trace such designations of Sin as "father of the gods", "chief of the gods", "creator of all things", and the like. The "wisdom" personified by the moon-god is likewise an expression of the science of astrology, in which the observation of the moon's phases is an important factor.

AD: Here we have a supposed Moon deity with some supreme qualities that only can be connected to the major/giant deity world and the Story of Creation, which of course takes off long before the Moon even was created. This wrong interpretation is a result of not being aware of the Milky Way half hemisphere contour crescent figure.

His wife was Ningal ("Great Lady"), who bore him Utu/Shamash ("Sun") and Inanna/Ishtar (the goddess of the planet Venus). The tendency to centralize the powers of the universe leads to the establishment of the doctrine of a triad consisting of Sin/Nanna and his children.

AD: Planet Venus is confused for the Milky Way Female deity, also represented with Nut, the Great Milky Way Mother.

Sin had a beard made of lapis lazuli and rode on a winged bull. The bull was one of his symbols, through his father, Enlil, "Bull of Heaven", along with the crescent and the tripod (which may be a lamp-stand). On cylinder seals, he is represented as an old man with a flowing beard and the crescent symbol.

AD: Sin represents the northern hemisphere Milky Way figure which can be depicted as a bull and in this case the Milky Way Crescent symbol fits very well. An important Sumerian text ("Enlil and Ninlil") tells of the descent of Enlil and Ninlil, pregnant with Nanna/Suen, into the underworld. There, three "substitutions" are given to allow the ascent of Nanna/Suen. The story shows some similarities to the text known as "The Descent of Inanna".

AD: Sin descending to the Underworld describe how the northern Milky Way male figure seemingly are revolving around the Celestial Pole and in a certain position, he is diving in the direction of the southern Earth hemisphere milky Way female figure, down under the horizon, in the direction of his wife.

Conclusion: Sin is not a Moon deity but a Milky Way deity.

2) Analyzing Shamash (Supposed Sun-Deity)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamash
(Wiki=Sun-Deity)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_deity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solar_deities

Shamash was a native Mesopotamian deity and the sun god in the Akkadian, Assyrian and Babylonian pantheons. Shamash was the god of justice in Babylonia and Assyria, corresponding to Sumerian Utu.

Utu (Akkadian rendition of Sumerian UD; Sun, Assyro-Babylonian Shamash "Sun") is the Sun god in Sumerian mythology, the son of the moon god Nanna and the goddess Ningal. His brother and sisters are Ishkur and Inanna and Erishkigal. (Inanna and Erishkigal were twins)

Shamash was historically associated with the planet Saturn. Both in early and in late inscriptions Shamash is designated as the "offspring of Nannar"; i.e. of the moon-god, and since, in an enumeration of the pantheon,

AD: The deity of Saturn(us) was originally an Earth northern hemisphere Milky Way deity and Nanna also belongs to the northern Earth Overworld Milky Way hemisphere and therefore Shamash also belongs here. Nanna is descending to the Underworld where he meets Inanna. The offspring of Nannar cannot possibly be from the Moon that is created long after the primary deities in this case and stage of creation.

Nanna's chief sanctuary at Ur was named E-gish-shir-gal ("house of the great light"). It was at Ur that the role of the En Priestess developed. This was an extremely powerful role held by a princess, most notably Enheduanna, daughter of King Sargon of Akkad, and was the primary cult role associated with the cult of Nanna/Sin.

AD: Nannas chief sanctuary at Ur is the Primordial Mound, house of great light, which refers to the Milky Way bulged centre and to the First Light; the Enclosed Light.

Conclusion: Shamash is not a Sun deity, but a Milky Way deity.

Analyzing Jupiter and Marduk

3) Jupiter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_%28mythology%29

4) Marduk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marduk

Jupiter

In ancient Roman religion and myth, Jupiter or Jove was the king of the gods, and the god of sky and thunder. He is the equivalent of Zeus in the Greek pantheon. As the patron deity of ancient Rome, he ruled over laws and social order. He was one of three gods of the Capitoline Triad, along with Juno and Minerva.

AD: The major and superior deities represent the very beginning of the creation and even before. The Story of Creation is very closely connected to the mythical Primordial Mound (Ur) which is the centre of our Milky Way. Out from this centre grows everything out and spread out in the Milky Way arms, biblically described as the expulsion from Eden, and symbolized by giant mythical figures that describe the contours of the Milky Way.

Deities closely connected to this stage of creation cannot possibly be connected to the creation of even our solar system in the first hand and therefore also not with planet Jupiter. Kings of the Gods can only be connected to the giant deities of the Milky Way and not to any planet in our solar system.

Jupiter may have begun as a sky-god, concerned mainly with wine festivals and associated with the sacred oak on the Capitol. If so, he developed a twofold character.

AD: Jupiter certainly began as a Sky God, namely as the northern Milky Way deity. In this sentence, he is rightfully to be equivalent to Zeus who was the child of Cronus and Rhea, the first creator deities.

Marduk

Marduk (Sumerian spelling in Akkadian: AMAR.UTU; "solar calf"; In the perfected system of astrology, the planet Jupiter was associated with Marduk by the Hammurabi period.

AD: Jupiter can really be connected to Marduk, but not the planet Jupiter.
Marduk's original character is obscure but he was later on connected with water, vegetation, judgment, and magic. He was also regarded as the son of Ea (Sumerian Enki) and Damkina and the heir of Anu. Marduk was recognized as the heads of the pantheon.

AD: Marduk´s connection to water is very understandable as the celestial deity was/is connected to the heavenly waters or river of the Milky Way.

There are particularly two gods—Ea and Enlil—whose powers and attributes pass over to Marduk. In the case of Ea, the transfer proceeded pacifically and without effacing the older god. Marduk took over the identity of Asarluhi, the son of Ea and god of magic, so that Marduk was integrated in the pantheon of Eridu where both Ea and Asarluhi originally came from. Father Ea voluntarily recognized the superiority of the son and hands over to him the control of humanity.

Marduk being the son of Enki and Damkina: The exact meaning of Enki is uncertain: the Sumerian en is translated as a title equivalent to "lord"; it was originally a title given to the High Priest; ki means "earth"; but there are theories that ki in this name has another origin, possibly kig of unknown meaning, or kur meaning "mound". The name Ea is allegedly Hurrian in origin while others claim that it is possibly of Semitic origin and may be a derivation from the West-Semitic root *hyy meaning "life" in this case used for "spring", "running water." In Sumerian E-A means "the house of water", and it has been suggested that this was originally the name for the shrine to the God at Eridu.

AD: Again Marduk is connected to all watery symbols. In connection with mound, (Primordial Mound) it is very clear that the waters mean the Milky Way River that starts off in the Milky Way centre, the house of heavenly waters.

In Enuma Elish, a civil war between the gods was growing to a climactic battle. The Anunnaki gods gathered together to find one god who could defeat the gods rising against them. Marduk, a very young god, answered the call and was promised the position of head god.

Marduk challenges the leader of the Anunnaki gods, the dragon of the primordial sea Tiamat, to single combat and defeats her by trapping her with his net, blowing her up with his winds, and piercing her belly with an arrow. Then, he proceeds to defeat Kingu, who Tiamat put in charge of the army and wore the Tablets of Destiny on his breast, and "wrested from him the Tablets of Destiny, wrongfully his" and assumed his new position. Under his reign humans were created to bear the burdens of life so the gods could be at leisure.

AD: Again there is a connection to something primordial. The dragon archetype of Tiamat is a sea creature. The sea Tiamat is not a sea in itself but just connected to everything connected to the Milky Way River, in this case to the Milky Way Underworld, located in the Sky on the Earth southern hemisphere. Marduk was depicted as a human, often with his symbol the snake-dragon which he had taken over from the god Tishpak.

Looking at the northern hemisphere Milky Way contours, this looks very much as a male human being, representing the largest and greatest god.

Conclusion: Jupiter and Marduk are very compatible and equal, if not compared to the planet Jupiter but the Milky Way structure from where they both these gods origin.

Analyzing Venus and Isthar

5) Venus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_%28mythology%29
6) Ishtar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar

Venus

Venus was a Roman goddess principally associated with love, beauty and fertility, who played a key role in many Roman religious festivals and myths. From the third century BC, the increasing Hellenization of Roman upper classes identified her as the equivalent of the Greek goddess Aphrodite.

Venus was commonly associated with the Greek goddess Aphrodite and the Etruscan deity Turan, borrowing aspects from each. As with most other gods and goddesses in Roman mythology, the literary concept of Venus is mantled in whole-cloth borrowings from the literary Greek mythology of her equivalent counterpart, Aphrodite. The early, Etruscan or Latin goddess of vegetation and gardens became deliberately associated with the Greek Goddess Aphrodite. In some Latin mythology Eros was the son of Venus and Mars, the god of war. In other times, Venus was understood to be the consort of Vulcan.

Aphrodite. According to Hesiod's Theogony, she was born when Cronus cut off Uranus' genitals and threw them into the sea, and from the sea foam (aphros) arose Aphrodite.

AD: Venus is associated with Aphrodite who is connected to an act of Cronos.
Cronus or Kronos (Ancient Greek: Kronos) was the leader and the youngest of the first generation of Titans, divine descendants of Gaia, the earth, and Uranus, the sky. In ancient myth recorded by Hesiod's Theogony, Cronus envied the power of his father, the ruler of the universe, Uranus. Uranus drew the enmity of Cronus' mother, Gaia, when he hid the gigantic youngest children of Gaia, the hundred-armed Hecatonchires and one-eyed Cyclopes, in Tartarus, so that they would not see the light. Gaia created a great stone sickle and gathered together Cronus and his brothers to persuade them to castrate Uranus. Only Cronus was willing to do the deed, so Gaia gave him the sickle and placed him in ambush.

AD: Cronus is connected to giants or Titans who again are connected to the giant figures of the Milky Way. Aphrodite is therefore also connected to the Milky Way figure, and as the original Venus, she is the Great Mother Goddess of the Earth southern hemisphere Milky Way crescent figure.

- It is preposterous to claim planet Venus having all the qualities and attributes that originally is given to a much larger celestial object of more importance such as the very centre of our Milky Way galaxy, a centre that mythological is called “The Cosmic Wombâ€￾ that gives form and birth to everything in our galaxy.

The etymology of Greek is unknown. Hesiod connects it by with (aphros) "foam," interpreting it as "risen from the foam". This has been widely classified as a folk etymology, and numerous speculative etymologies, many of them non-Greek, have been suggested in scholarship. But Janda (2010) considers the connection with "foam" genuine, identifying the myth of Aphrodite rising out of the waters after Cronus defeats Uranus as a mytheme of Proto-Indo-European age. According to this interpretation, the name is from aphros "foam, "[she] seems" or "shines" (infinitive form *dÃoasthai), meaning "she who shines from the foam [ocean]", a byname of the dawn goddess (Eos)

AD: The foam-description is related to the creational movement of the heavenly waters that mythological has described the Milky Way River. The southern Milky Way female figure rise (is created) from the centre of our galaxy.

Conclusion:
Connecting planet Venus with these mentioned major and supreme mythological qualities and attributes is out of logical order.


Isthar

Ishtar is the Assyrian and Babylonian goddess of fertility, love, war, and sex. She is the counterpart to the Sumerian Inanna and to the cognate north-west Semitic goddess Astarte.

Ishtar was the daughter of Sin or Anu. She was particularly worshipped at the Assyrian cities of Nineveh and Arbela (Erbil). In Sumerian mythology and later for Assyrians and Babylonians, Anu (also An; (from Sumerian *An = sky, heaven)) was a sky-god, the god of heaven, lord of constellations, king of gods, spirits and demons, and dwelt in the highest heavenly regions.

AD: Planet Venus possibly cannot be connected to the Anu or Sin quality of god of heaven and lord of the constellations, dwelling on the highest heavenly regions.

Besides the lions on her gate, her symbol is an eight pointed star. In the Babylonian pantheon, she "was the divine personification of the planet Venus".

AD: There is no way planet Venus logically can be associated with an eight pointed star, but Goddess Venus can easily be connected with the Rays of the Milky Way Light.

One of the most famous myths about Ishtar describes her descent to the underworld.

AD: The mythical descent to the Underworld is just a telling of what the Earth southern hemisphere Milky Way figure is all about and especially that it is located on the southern hemisphere under the northern hemisphere, the under-world.

Even for the gods Ishtar's love was fatal. In her youth the goddess had loved Tammuz, god of the harvest, and ”if one is to believe Gilgamesh, ”this love caused the death of Tammuz.

AD: The description is a literal interpretation of the fact that Ishtar is located on the opposite Earth hemisphere of Tammuz. These two deities represent the Milky Way figures on both hemispheres. They are opposite each other, located against each other –but not at all in war against each other as scholars often states. On the contrary, they are complementary to each other, representing the whole Milky Way figure.

Conclusion. Planet Venus can of course not be either astrologically or cosmologically connected to the Milky Way Ishtar deity. This is an absurdity that distorts both the astronomical as well as the mythological logics.

Analyzing Saturn and Ninurta

7) Saturn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_%28mythology%29
8) Ninurta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninurta

Saturn
Saturn (Latin: Saturnus) was a major Roman god of agriculture and harvest, whose reign was depicted as a Golden Age of abundance and peace by many Roman authors. In medieval times he was known as the Roman god of agriculture, justice and strength. He held a sickle in his left hand and a bundle of wheat in his right. His mother was Terra and his father was Caelus. He was identified in classical antiquity with the Greek deity Cronus, and the mythologies of the two gods are commonly mixed.

AD: It is very understandable that Saturn is mixed with the mythology of Cronus. What is not that understandable at all, is that the planet Saturn is mixed up with the Cronus Milky Way figure.

Saturn's wife was Ops (the Roman equivalent of Rhea). Saturn was the father of Ceres, Jupiter, Veritas, Pluto, and Neptune, Juno, among others. Saturn had a temple on the Forum Romanum which contained the Royal Treasury. Saturn is the namesake of both Saturn, the planet, and Saturday (dies Saturni).

Saturn is often identified with the Greek Cronus. In Hesiod's Theogony, a mythological account of the creation of the universe and Zeus' rise to power, Cronus is mentioned as the son of Uranus (the Greek equivalent of Roman Caelus), the heavens, and Gaia (the Greek equivalent of Terra), the earth. In Babylon he was called Ninib and was an agricultural deity. Saturn, called Cronus by the Greeks, was, at the dawn of the Ages of the Gods, the Protector and Sower of the Seed and his wife, Ops, (called Rhea by the Greeks) was a Harvest Helper. Saturn was one of the Seven Titans or Numina and with them, reigned supreme in the Universe. The Titans were of incredible size and strength and held power for untold ages, until they were deposed by Jupiter.

AD: Equaling planet Saturn with Cronus places planet Saturn on the mythological telling of Titans and Giants who are connected to the large (titanic) Milky Way contours, the largest celestial figure observable from the Earth. Planet Saturn can of course not supreme reigning celestial object of the Universe.

This is non sense in all categories of natural science as well of mythological terms.
Three creatures born of Terra were monstrously huge with one hundred hands and fifty heads. Three others were individually called Cyclops, because each had only one enormous eye in the middle of their foreheads. Then, there were the Titans, seven of them, formidably large and none of whom was a purely destructive force. One was actually credited with saving man after creation.

AD: In the above paragraph and here, there is confusion between Terra, planet Earth, and the Story of Creation concept of soil, meaning the first form that rise from the Milky Way centre, called The Cosmic Womb. Titans and Giants are specifically connected to the mythological Milky Way figures.

Ninurta

Ninurta (Nin Ur: Lord of the Earth/Plough) in Sumerian and Akkadian mythology was the god of Lagash, identified with Ningirsu with whom he may always have been identical. In older transliteration the name is rendered Ninib and in early commentary he was sometimes portrayed as a solar deity.

In Nippur, Ninurta was worshiped as part of a triad of deities including his father, Enlil and his mother, Ninlil. In variant mythology, his mother is said to be the deity Ninhursag.

Ninurta´s mother Ninhursag. In Sumerian mythology, Ninhursag was the earth and mother goddess, one of the seven great deities of Sumer. She is principally a fertility goddess. Temple hymn sources identify her as the 'true and great lady of heaven' and kings of Sumer were 'nourished by Ninhursag's milk'. She is typically depicted wearing a horned head-dress and tiered skirt, often with bow cases at her shoulders, and not infrequently carries a mace or baton surmounted by an omega motif or a derivation, sometimes accompanied by a lion cub on a leash. She is the tutelary deity to several Sumerian leaders.

AD: Again there is the almost usual confusion between the soil-concept from the Story of Creation and Earth. The paragraph states very clearly that she is the true and great lady of heaven and therefore Ninurta also is connected to something great in the heaven, namely the Milky Way figure.

Ninurta often appears holding a bow and arrow, a sickle sword, or a mace named Sharur: Sharur is capable of speech in the Sumerian legend "Deeds and Exploits of Ninurta" and can take the form of a winged lion and may represent an archetype for the later Shedu.

AD: Just like Marduk; Milky Way Saturn; Milky Way Jupiter etc. have a sickle sword as their attribute, this is also the case with Ninurta and therefore this deity also is connected to the mythological Milky Way figures.

Conclusion: The planetary Saturn can of course not at all be connected to either the qualities or attributes of Milky Way deity Ninurta. The planetary Saturn is confused with the Milky Way Saturnus.

Analyzing Mercury and Nergal

9) Mercury http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_%28mythology%29
10) Nergal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nergal

Mercury

Mercury did not appear among the numinous di indigetes of early Roman religion. Rather, he subsumed the earlier Dei Lucrii as Roman religion was syncretized with Greek religion during the time of the Roman Republic, starting around the 4th century BC. From the beginning, Mercury had essentially the same aspects as Hermes, wearing winged shoes talaria and a winged petasos, and carrying the caduceus, a herald's staff with two entwined snakes that was Apollo's gift to Hermes. He was often accompanied by a cockerel, herald of the new day, a ram or goat, symbolizing fertility, and a tortoise, referring to Mercury's legendary invention of the lyre from a tortoise shell.

Like Hermes, Mercury was also a messenger of the gods and a god of trade, particularly of the grain trade. Mercury was also considered a god of abundance and commercial success, particularly in Gaul. He was also, like Hermes, the Romans' psychopomp, leading newly-deceased souls to the afterlife. Additionally, Ovid wrote that Mercury carried Morpheus' dreams from the valley of Somnus to sleeping humans.

AD: The mythological concept of afterlife is closely connected to the underworld and as such the Mercury figure also is connected to the underworld Great Milky Way Mother who rules the Underworld.

Hermes is the great messenger of the gods in Greek mythology and additionally a guide to the Underworld. Hermes was born on Mount Cyllene in Arcadia. An Olympian god, he is also the patron of boundaries and of the travelers who cross them, of shepherds and cowherds, of the cunning of thieve, of orators and wit, of literature and poets, of athletics and sports, of weights and measures, of invention, and of commerce in general. His symbols include the tortoise, the rooster, the winged sandals, the winged hat, and the caduceus.

AD: Hermes was of course not born on the geographic locality of Mount Cyllene in Arcadia. This is a pulling the specific celestial cosmogony meaning down on Earth. Mount Olympus should be the correct birthing place for both Hermes and Mercury and Mount Olympus can be compared to The Primordial Mound seated in the centre of our Milky Way, also called The Cosmic Womb, from where all archetypical Titanic and Gigantic deities and Creatures are born.

In Greek mythology, Hermes was born in a sacred cave on the mountain.
The sacred cave is of course The Cosmic Womb, not on the mountain, but in the mountain of the heavenly Primordial Mound in the Milky Way Centre.

Hermes, as an inventor of fire, is a parallel of the Titan, Prometheus. In addition to the lyre, Hermes was believed to have invented many types of racing and the sports of wrestling and boxing, and therefore was a patron of athletes.

AD: The mythological Mercury/Hermes connection to a parallel of the Titan Prometheus, also suggest that the mythological Mercury has a close relationship with the titanic figures of the Milky Way, which of course not can be said of the tiny planet Mercury at all.

Nergal

Nergal actually seems to be in part a solar deity, sometimes identified with Shamash, but only a representative of a certain phase of the sun. Portrayed in hymns and myths as a god of war and pestilence, Nergal seems to represent the sun of noontime and of the summer solstice that brings destruction, high summer being the dead season in the Mesopotamian annual cycle.

Nergal was also the deity who presides over the netherworld, and who stands at the head of the special pantheon assigned to the government of the dead (supposed to be gathered in a large subterranean cave known as Aralu or Irkalla). In this capacity he has associated with him a goddess Allatu or Ereshkigal, though at one time Allatu may have functioned as the sole mistress of Aralu, ruling in her own person. In some texts the god Ninazu is the son of Nergal and Allatu/Ereshkigal.

AD: Nergal presiding over the Nether- or Underworld suggest that he preside on the Overworld of the Earth northern celestial Milky Way hemisphere.

Irkalla (also Ir-Kalla, Irkalia) is the hell-like underworld from which there is no return. It is also called Arali, Kigal, Gizal, and the lower world. Irkalla is ruled by the goddess Ereshkigal and her consort, the death god Nergal (in Babylonian mythology).

Irkalla was originally another name for Ereshkigal, who ruled the underworld alone until Nergal was sent to the underworld and seduced Ereshkigal (in Babylonian mythology). Both the deity and the location were called Irkalla, much like how Hades in Greek mythology is both the name of the underworld and the god who ruled it.

AD: It is not a god but a goddess that rules the underworld.

Underworld (netherworld) is a region in some religions and in mythologies which is thought to be under the surface of the earth. It could be a place where the souls of the recently departed go, and, in some traditions, it is identified with Hell or the realm of death. In other traditions, however, such as animistic traditions, it could be seen as the place where life appears to have originated from (such as plant life, water, etc.) and a place to which life must return at life's end, with no negative undertones.

AD: As stated several times: The Underworld is on the opposite location of the Overworld that is located over the northern Earth hemisphere representing the Milky Way figure on both hemispheres. The statement, of Under the surface of the Earth, mean literary and cosmologically on the southern hemisphere. The Underworld Milky Way figures are mostly connected to mythological female archetypes, hence the descendent of Inanna and other comparative myths.

- The animistic traditional understanding of the Underworld from where all life has originated is mythological and cosmologically is very correct accordingly the mythical concept of The Cosmic Womb, located in the Milky Way galaxy centre, also named The Primordial Mound; The first Light and The Enclosed Light, from where all living things have been created and moved out in the Milky Way galactic surroundings.

Nergal's fiery aspect appears in names or epithets such as Lugalgira, Sharrapu ("the burner," a reference to his manner of dealing with outdated teachings), Erra, Gibil (though this name more properly belongs to Nusku), and Sibitti.

A certain confusion exists in cuneiform literature between Ninurta and Nergal. Nergal has epithets such as the "raging king," the "furious one," and the like. A play upon his name—separated into three elements as Ne-uru-gal (lord of the great dwelling) -- expresses his position at the head of the nether-world pantheon.

AD: This is not a confusion at all. Nergal being “the head of The Underworld, i.e situated over the southern hemisphere Milky Way, representing of course the northern hemisphere Overworld Milky Way deity which quality, amongst others, is depicted as a giant fiery warrior, wearing his Sickle Sword, just like Odin in the Norse Mythology. The supposed confusion only deals with the scholarly lack of Mytho-Cosmological insight.

In the late Babylonian astral-theological system Nergal is related to the planet Mars. As a fiery god of destruction and war, Nergal doubtless seemed an appropriate choice for the red planet, and he was equated by the Greeks either to the combative demigod Heracles (Latin Hercules) or to the war-god Ares (Latin Mars) -- hence the current name of the planet. In Babylonian ecclesiastical art the great lion-headed colossi serving as guardians to the temples and palaces seem to symbolise Nergal, just as the bull-headed colossi probably typify Ninurta.

Mars

(Latin: Mars, adjectives Martius and Martialis) was the Roman god of war and also an agricultural guardian, a combination characteristic of early Rome. He was second in importance only to Jupiter. Under the influence of Greek culture, Mars was identified with the Greek god Ares, whose myths were reinterpreted in Roman literature and art under the name of Mars. But the character and dignity of Mars differed in fundamental ways from that of his Greek counterpart, who is often treated with contempt and revulsion in Greek literature. Mars was a part of the Archaic Triad along with Jupiter and Quirinus, the latter of whom as a guardian of the Roman people had no Greek equivalent.

AD: Like Nergal, the mythological Mars and Ares, the quality of war deity is related to the northern Milky Way male figure wearing a Spear or Sickle Sword.

Ares is the Greek god of war. "Ares is apparently an ancient abstract noun meaning throng of battle, war. He is one of the Twelve Olympians, and the son of Zeus and Hera. As the Olympian god of warfare, righteous indignation, and courage; lover of Aphrodite and "Leader of Righteous Men," Ares presides over male passion, the weapons and preparations for war, the defense and protection of cities, rebellion and civil order, policing of banditry, masculinity, integrity, and personal courage.

AD: The mythological Ares being the Olympian God of Warfare and a lover of Aphrodite, the Great Milky Way Mother on the southern Earth hemisphere reveals the fact that Ares; Mars and Nergal all are the same mythological figure which several cultural periods have given different names to the very same Mytho-Cosmological celestial object.

Conclusion: The inferior planets of Mercury and Mars can of course not be connected to anything regarded to the superior Milky Way Mythology to which the Nergal deity clearly is connected.

Analyzing Earth Mythology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_%28mythology%29

NB: Strangely enough the Earth itself does not show up in these comparisons of the supposed planetary deities. Searching Earth Mythology on the internet, Gaia shows up on Wikipedia:

Gaia is a primordial deity in the Ancient Greek pantheon and considered a Mother Titan or Great Titan.

AD: Planet Earth is surely not at giant deity or a primordial deity in the Mytho-Cosmlogical realms. As mention several times Giants and Titans belong to the Milky Way structure.

Her equivalent in the Roman pantheon was Terra Mater or Tellus. Romans, unlike Greeks, did not consistently distinguish an Earth Titan (Tellus) from a grain goddess Ceres.

AD: Trying to equal Gaia=Earth with Terra Mater also scholarly goes very wrong interpretively. An Earth Titan is a directly contra dictionary mythological concept! Planet Earth is the one that is over-whelmed by the titanic structure of the Milky Way to which Gaia really belongs.

Terra Mater. Romans appealed to Terra over earthquakes, and along with the grain goddess Ceres, she was responsible for the productivity of farmland. She was also associated with marriage, motherhood, pregnant women, and pregnant animals. Terra's Greek counterpart is Gaia.

AD: Both the Grain Goddess Ceres and Gaia belongs to the southern Milky Way structure.

The two words Terra and Tellus are thought to derive from the formulaic phrase tersa tellus, meaning "dry land"; it may also be related to the similar sounding name of the equivalent Etruscan goddess Cel. If this is true, Tellus might be the more ancient version of the name.

AD: The mythological, dry land appears in the Story of Creation when the first soil is created in the Cosmic Womb in the centre of our galaxy.

According to The Oxford Classical Dictionary, Terra refers to the element earth (one of the four basic elements of earth, air, water, and fire) and Tellus refers to the guardian deity of Earth and by extension the globe itself.

AD: This is almost - correct. The mythological meaning is soil, but not in connection with Earth, but with The Primordial Mound from where all matter is created in the Milky Way centre.

Hesiod's Theogony (116ff) tells how, from Chaos, arose broad-breasted Gaia, the everlasting foundation of the gods of Olympus. She brought forth Uranus, the starry sky, her equal, to cover her, the hills (Ourea), and the fruitless deep of the Sea, Pontus, "without sweet union of love," out of her own self through parthenogenesis. But afterwards, as Hesiod tells it, she is a great god of nature.

She (Gaia) lay with her son, Uranus, and bore the world-ocean god Oceanus, Coeus and Crius and the Titans Hyperion and Iapetus, Theia and Rhea, Themis, Mnemosyne, and Phoebe of the golden crown, and lovely Tethys. After them was born Cronus the wily, youngest and most terrible of her children, and he hated his lusty sire.

AD: It is astonishing that somebody can equal the planet Earth with the broad-breasted giant Gaia that gives birth to everything else in the Milky Way, including herself. The reference to different World-Ocean deities of course is dealing with the celestial Milky Way River and the deities connected to these almost forgotten Milky Way Myths.

Hesiod mentions Gaia's further offspring conceived with Uranus: first the giant one-eyed Cyclopes: Brontes ("thunderer"), Steropes ("lightning"), and the "bright" Arges.

Cyclopes.

In Greek mythology and later Roman mythology, a Cyclops was a member of a primordial race of giants, each with a single eye in the middle of its forehead. The name is widely thought to mean "circle-eyed".

AD: Cyclops are of course connected to Giants and Titans (The Norse Mytology´s Jaetter) representing the 2 Earth hemispheres Milky Way contours that separated is observed as a crescent Milky Way figure that, doubled up, forms an eyelike structure around the Earth axis Celestial Pole, giving these 2 additional crescent symbols the name of The Eye of the God and Goddess or the Circle Eye, again referring to the northern and southern Earth Axis Celestial Polar Circle.

End remarks: Connecting inferior celestial planets to superior celestial and Mythological Milky Way Deities should really be totally avoided in the first place as pure absurdity. The attempt to do so anyway is not precisely a quality mark of historical and mythological insight and natural skills that has fatally declined since ancient time accordingly to the humanity mowing more and more away from the natural world picture and thereby mowing away from the intuitive way of gathering knowledge.

It is my humble hope that this article can be added to get the Mythological Knowledge, especially the Milky Way Myths, back on the High Seat where it really belongs.
Regards Ivar Nielsen
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04. Basical Symbols of Creation

Post by Native » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:24 pm

Basical Symbols of Creation

1. Most stories of Creation begin with nothing, but this is just a telling technique in order to describe how everything in cosmos is formed.

2. Then the stories start of and tell of how the 4 basic elements of water; fire; air and soil interact in the 5.th element of space. That is: These 4 elements are the basically 4 fluent forces that create everything in the space of the Universe.

Water = Hydrogen
Fire = Helium
Air = Oxygen and other lighter gasses.
Soil = All the other basic and firmer elements

3. The very basics describe an interaction between fluent gasses and the firm dust/clay.

4. Fire (cosmic explosions) hits a cloud of cold gas and matter which are set in a swirling and contracting motion via electromagnetic and thermodynamic forces that again accelerate and heat up the gasses and dust in the contracting swirl.

Gas and dust is heated until the plasma stage in the thermo- and electromagnetic circuit, creating points of magnetic knots that sort out gasses and melts dust together in a nuclear process.

The mythical term of the first mythical symbol The Primordial Mound is beginning to take form.

5 This process forms larger spheres of gasses and matter which leaves the swirl successively when the critical weight or mass is reached compared to the centrifugal horizontal momentum in the contracting swirl.

6. When this process happens in a pre-galactic cloud, as in our Milky Way galaxy, these larger spheres of gas and matter become stars; planets; moons etc- of all kind and stages.

7. That is: Accordingly to this explanation, generally taken from ancient stories of Creation, our Solar System was once born directly out from the Milky Way centre and not via a local cloud of gas and dust that suddenly decided to collapse via gravity.

This very same story very well explains the Expulsion of the Garden of Eden

8. The expulsion, the once outgoing movement from the galactic centre, creates next the galactic arms which, strangely enough, or of course, looks like giant human beings or giant animals or both. The whole Milky Way structure that can be observed all around the Earth is very logically symbolized with the Great Serpent of Creation.

9. The ancient people divided their earthly world in 2 parts, which also is very well described in many myths. On the Earth northern hemisphere they looked at the Milky Way contours and named this Milky Way crescent mostly with names of male origin, human or animal. For obvious literary and cultural reasons, the northern hemisphere is mythologically mentioned as The Upperworld where the Great God resides.

On the Earth southern hemisphere the Milky Way contours very much looks like a female figure which got more convincing and logical weight as this figure contains the very centre in our galaxy from where everything is born. The symbol and description of the Milky Way centre as a big place of birth is The Cosmic Womb. This southern hemisphere is called The Underworld where the Great Goddess resides.

10. This concludes the mythical, and really a modern cosmological, telling of the interaction between the basic elements and the formation of the galactic centre and of the creation of our Solar System.

This concludes also how the 4 most important mythological symbols of creation are formed: The Primordial Mound; The Great Goddess: The Great God and the Great Serpent. All belonging to the Milky Way Galaxy

- With these explanations of mytological text and symbols of Creation connected to the right celestial phenomena, we are very well equipped indeed in order to pretty accurate interpret any creation myth from all over the world.
Last edited by Native on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
Regards Ivar Nielsen
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Re: 04. Basical Symbols of Creation

Post by captsunshine » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:22 am

Native wrote:1. Most stories of Creation begin with nothing, but this is just a telling technique in order to describe how everything in cosmos is formed.

2. Then the stories start of and tell of how the 4 basic elements of water; fire; air and soil interact in the 5.th element of space. That is: These 4 elements are the basically 4 fluent forces that create everything in the space of the Universe.

Water = Hydrogen
Fire = Helium
Air = Oxygen and other lighter gasses.
Soil = All the other basic and firmer elements

3. The very basics describe an interaction between fluent gasses and the firm dust/clay.

4
.
Yes The five elements are the primary manifestations of creation in the Hindu (Sankhya,Upanishadic and Tantra) the Buddhist Avidharmakosha) as well as in Greek stoic texts.
But difference iin interpretation arises while trying to estabilish or to link events that lead up to the very first moment that ever was -
for eg the story of Genesis in Semitic religions.
These five elements can be interpreted or described in the Hindu context (and even in its iconography)as follows
Akasha: ( ether or just space) non-obstructive, all-directed motion radiating lines of force in all directions, symbolized as the “Hairs of Siva” affording the space in which the other forces operate;
Vayu:(Wind, Air) transverse motion and locomotion in space.
Agni: (Fire)upward motion giving rise to expansion.
Apas:Water) downward motion giving rise to contraction.
Prithvi: that motion which produces cohesion, its characteristic of obstruction being the opposite of the non-obstructive ether in which it exists and from which it and the other Tattvas(conception) spring
.
But what one has top bear in Mind is that all that has been described above are but subtle conditions which together create the perception of forms which can be sensed by the human mind.
In other words 'Creation happen at every moment of a conscious mind; and to concieve of a condition that might exist outside the bounds of a cognitive apparatus (for example our poor labouring mind)- is just that - a mindless exercise.
Our minds, condtion the world that we perceive and interestingly, get conditioned by its perceived reality
Non-violence ... requires greater heroism than of brave soldiers ... The world does not accept today the idea of loving the enemy. Even in Christian Europe the principle of non-violence is ridiculed ... Christians do not understand the message of Jesus. It is necessary to deliver it over again in the way we can understand ...

- Gandhi - speech -1925
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Post by Native » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:41 am

Dear captsunshine,

Thanks for your very confirming reply indeed.

Now: Would you like to ponder over if the supreme deities in the Hindu context can be connected to the Milky Way figures, i.e. the whole banded figure around the Earth; the southern hemisphere figure (the Underworld) and the northern hemisphere figure (The Upperworld).

That is: 3 major deities/creatures that possibly can belong to the Milky Way Mythology.

- Maybe the information here - http://www.native-science.net/MilkyWay. ... y.Keys.htm - can be to any help?

- Looking much forward to a result of your ponderings.
Regards Ivar Nielsen
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Re: Hello Neoplato,

Post by Ercan2121 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:41 pm

Native wrote:Thanks for asking.

I have googled "comparative mythology" several times, but for some odd reason I did´nt notised The Joseph Campbell Foundation before today.

But I´m sure it is all worth waiting for.

I´m looking forward to further response if you like, Neoplato
Welcome to JCF forums, Native!
Sometimes it works this way.
I remember the day I encountered a Campbell quote on a movie
(the movie Secret) :)
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Post by tat tvam asi » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:22 pm

Hey Native, I don't know if you realize that I've been a member here for years or not. But here I am. I followed your suggested link @ www.booktalk.org and have browsed the thread. Instead of getting into the conflict over whether standard accepted solar symbolism is addressed to the sun or really the milky way instead, I'd rather explore the thing about the first day of creation in Genesis for a while.

Now I confess that for a long time I neglected to realize that the mysterious light of the first day of creation - which is clearly not the sun - is probably the milky way. And in the context of older myths it's clear enough that it was believed that the milky way was around before the sun and moon. Some apologists, not knowing what to do with the problem of light created on the first day and the sun, moon, and stars created on the fourth day, resort to contradictive claims about the sun being created in the beginning but not visible until the fourth day when pressed to account for what exactly the "light" of the first day was. I've also heard people say that it was "Jesus". There are a lot of fallacies going around in apologetics and what they all have in common is that they fail to realize that Genesis is based on older myth. Once put into context the mystery seems easily solved though.

Another thing to note is how the creation days are arranged to conform to the sacred number of 7 (the number of visible planets and luminaries).

Day 1 "Light" (Milky Way / Universe) --- Day 4 "Sun, Moon, and Stars"

Day 2 "Sea and Air" --- Day 5 "Sea and Air creatures"

Day 3 "Dry Land" --- Day 6 "Land creatures, man"

Day 7 "Rest"

It's obvious that three environments of existence are established at first, and then each of the three environments are given inhabitants in the exactly order that the environments were created. By the time this myth was written the astrotheological number 7 was well known and in use. So it looks like the writer(s) intentionally sought to come up with a myth conforming to the sacred number 7. It ends with the 7th day, Saturn being the seventh sphere out and the last visible planet. Saturn's day is the Sabbath rest of the mythology. I believe that "El" is the semitic deity associated with Saturn. When the cult of YHWH pushed for monotheism the day sacred formly to Elyon was given to YHWH and the former Elohim pantheon was eventually all but forgotten.

So technically, we have the heavens and earth made. The earth exists in dark and void state. Then a light which is not the sun, moon, or any star appears. Then the firmanent and earths environments are created. Then the sun, moon, and stars are made. Then life enters the myth. So with this in mind the universe itself and the earth exist before the milky way, they don't really emerge from out of the milky way. At least not in the context of the written word. Do you agree with this?
"Scholars conjecture that a sense of divinity in Nature co-evolved with the first emergence of human consciousness, perhaps 100,000 years ago. The earliest god was Nature."

As far back as we are able to look into the past, says historian Colin Wilson, "human beings seem to have worshipped nature, and connected it to a higher spiritual reality, which they called god or the divine."
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Post by boringguy » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:45 pm

Hi tat,


I have to admit that I surely have way to little knowledge in the direction of this conversation, but a thought strikes me here.

Now I confess that for a long time I neglected to realize that the mysterious light of the first day of creation - which is clearly not the sun - is probably the milky way. And in the context of older myths it's clear enough that it was believed that the milky way was around before the sun and moon. Some apologists, not knowing what to do with the problem of light created on the first day and the sun, moon, and stars created on the fourth day, resort to contradictive claims about the sun being created in the beginning but not visible until the fourth day. -- tat

Doesn’t it make a lot of sense too, in todays model of the ‘big bang’ for example, that a great light did precede the formation of galaxies, stars, and planets? Not that this necessarily fits with the idea that earth was created before other things, but then it doesn't seem to surprizing that the stories of the time, with the kowledge of the time, would see earth as the central or next most important creation to follow that of the space itslef in which to put earth.





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Post by tat tvam asi » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:09 pm

Hey BG, I know that in the 1950's the Pope tried to link the BB to Genesis in a "Creation Ex Nihilo" sort of way. But upon closer examination the heavens and earth are created before the "light." So it's difficult to try and link the BB cosmology to Genesis, at least literally as they sought to link it. I agree the order doesn't quite work out.
but then it doesn't seem to surprizing that the stories of the time, with the kowledge of the time, would see earth as the central or next most important creation to follow that of the space itslef in which to put earth.
Yeah, they were thinking in terms of looking out from the perspective of the earth and trying to order the emergence of things. It's interesting to analyze. And we have to consider that this was a multilevel universe cosmology of the Near East in question too. The heaven(s) and the earth. If this line of reasoning is correct, then the milky way was the first celestial object in the heaven(s) to appear and give off light:

1) Space (Aether)

2) Earth

3) Milky Way (Light)

4) Firmament

5) Land Mass (Grass before the sun!)

6) Sun, Moon, Stars (Ruling Lights)

7) Air and Sea Creatures

8 ) Land Creatures
"Scholars conjecture that a sense of divinity in Nature co-evolved with the first emergence of human consciousness, perhaps 100,000 years ago. The earliest god was Nature."

As far back as we are able to look into the past, says historian Colin Wilson, "human beings seem to have worshipped nature, and connected it to a higher spiritual reality, which they called god or the divine."
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Post by Native » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:20 pm

tat tvam asi wrote:Hey Native, I don't know if you realize that I've been a member here for years or not.

Now I confess that for a long time I neglected to realize that the mysterious light of the first day of creation - which is clearly not the sun - is probably the Milky Way. And in the context of older myths it's clear enough that it was believed that the milky way was around before the sun and moon. AD 1

Another thing to note is how the creation days are arranged to conform to the sacred number of 7 (the number of visible planets and luminaries).

Day 1 "Light" (Milky Way / Universe) --- Day 4 "Sun, Moon, and Stars"
Day 2 "Sea and Air" --- Day 5 "Sea and Air creatures"
Day 3 "Dry Land" --- Day 6 "Land creatures, man"
Day 7 "Rest" AD 2

So technically, we have the heavens and earth made. The earth exists in dark and void state. (AD 43 Then a light which is not the sun, moon, or any star appears. Then the firmament and earths environments are created. Then the sun, moon, and stars are made. Then life enters the myth. So with this in mind the universe itself and the earth exist before the Milky Way, they don't really emerge from out of the Milky Way. (AD 4) At least not in the context of the written word. Do you agree with this?
hello tat,

Yes, I knew of your membership here.

AD 1: I´m very glad you are taking up the Milky Way myths up again.

The Milky Way centre creation was activated some time before the specific creation of our Solar System which is logically since our Solar System is located some 27.000 light-years from the centre – and if accepting that the creation took place in the galactic centre and moved everything out in the galactic surroundings.

AD 2: The bible states 7 days – otherwise I´ve no speculations whether the number of 7 is especially holy. Maybe there also could be a kind of creational-stages-description in this numbering?

AD 3: If accepting that our Solar System was created out of the Milky Way centre, it all was created at the same time and send out in the galactic surroundings. So the Sun was already shining in the system.

AD 4: The Universe is eternal and in the Universe everything is created; assembled and dissolved in eternity. Our Milky Way came to being in this Universe, but the Earth as we know it, did not exist before the Milky Way.

(- Maybe there is a interpretiv confusion between the mythically "soil"/"firm matter" and planet Earth here?)

The “soil”, though, exist before (i.e. eternally) the creation of our Milky Way.

Cosmologists reckons that dust/soil/”metallic matter” fills just 00.01 % in the Universe, whereas the rest 99.99 % is hydrogen and helium = the mythical Primeval Waters and the connected mythologically deities.
Regards Ivar Nielsen
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Post by tat tvam asi » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:04 pm

In Genesis the perspective is from looking out from the earth and describing a creation sequence. So I'm pretty sure that they meant that the earth and space were created in the beginning, and then God said "Let there be light" which fired up the milky way illumination, if we're correct about the first light being the light of the milky way. I don't really know what else they could be referring to. If we know that older creations made use of the milky way which probably influence what we see in Genesis 1 then that makes a pretty strong case for the mystery light 3 days before the sun or moon. If by a void watery earth they mean the celestial waters as in older myths, then you have a point.

I was assuming that you understood the mystery astrotheological number 7, or the mystery of 5 and 7 as found in many cultures. But it looks like that comment went unrecognized. For a crash course lecture on the mystery here is an audio archive: LINK

Briefly, Genesis is the product of post Babylonian captivity writing periods. And technically we have nothing earlier than the Septuagint to go by. A guy recently brought forward a theory contrasting Documentary Hypothesis which he has termed Septuagint Priority Hypothesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awg52anmTb8

The idea is that there probably wasn't any organized Hebrew written bible (Tora) collection before the Septuagint, but only oral stories past along and some scattered myths of different variety. But the Greeks, being interested in knowing everyones beliefs probably pressed the Jews for a history of their race and religion. He speculates that in response to that, learned Alexandrian Jews who had access to the libraries began piecing together what would become the Septuagint. That pretty much explains the wide diversity of eastern and western mythological motifs and themes found in the Septuagint and all of the later translations which followed. You know, Brahma / Abram and Sarai / Saraiswati, Moses / King Sargon I, etc. etc. Campbell discovered that the Babylonian Kings list of Berossus corresponds to the ten biblical Patriarchs between Adam and the flood and he pulled the 432 mystery number of the Goddess (in variations - 432,000 and 43,200) out of both myths. So one could credit Campbell for early discoveries concerning what is now becoming the SPH...

But in anycase, we're reading through a very late written document when approaching the creation account in Genesis 1. Way later than the concept of the 7 chakras and all of the other pagan sacred symbolism addressed to the number 7, which yeilds variations in the ancient mysteries between the numbers 5 and 7 (refer to the lecture). Long story short, the reason these numbers have sacred value is because we can see two luminaries and five planets from the earth which stand out from the rest of the celestial objects. In time these numbers were worked into mysteries and 7 was a sacred number the world over (the variations of the 5 and 7 loaves in the gospels also play off of this astrotheological mystery).

What I was pointing out is that writer(s) set up the creation account lGenesis with the number 7 already in mind going into it. The creation is set up in terms of setting up 3 environments followed by the inhabitants to inhabit the 3 environments. Then the 7th day is given as a day of rest. It's the odd ball out, but, they needed to make the creation conform to the number 7 and the Sabbath is the result. This is all astrotheological and addressed to the mystery of the first function (mystery of existence) in relation to the cosmology (sacred 7) of the second function of the myth.

The missing info link, in my case, is the proposal of the milky way as the unknown "light" that tail ended the first day of creation in Genesis. I've been pouring over this myth all of my life and uncovering different mysteries as I go along, one by one. And in time I've managed to unlock much of this mythology for no other interest than personal reasons. I just want to know as much as I can about the religion I was raised in. Even understanding that it isn't literally true, I'm still interested in knowing everything I can about what it actually is. And Robert and I have spent a considerable time trying to decode Genesis, Daniel, and Revelation. During this milky way myth debate - that has spilled over to at least three different forums so far - I started realizing that the debate itself opens a key to unlocking part of the mysteries I've been after...
"Scholars conjecture that a sense of divinity in Nature co-evolved with the first emergence of human consciousness, perhaps 100,000 years ago. The earliest god was Nature."

As far back as we are able to look into the past, says historian Colin Wilson, "human beings seem to have worshipped nature, and connected it to a higher spiritual reality, which they called god or the divine."
Locked