Believe Nothing

What needs do mythology and religion serve in today's world and in ancient times? Here we discuss the relationship between mythology, religion and science from mythological, religious and philosophical viewpoints.

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N8N
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Post by N8N » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:43 pm

nandu wrote:If you look at it deeply, the argument that "myth is only history" does not hold water. All the four functions of myth, as Joe Campbell explained, have to be fulfilled for a myth to remain alive.
I define Myth as a story and history as the past. So in effect a story from the past. This post becomes a myth as soon as I press submit.
Let's take the creation myths for example. How did they come into being? If ancient man wondered how everything came into being and simply came up with fanciful stories to account for it, then myths would be much simpler than they are now. Moreover, there is a commonality of symbols running through all the myths, so that themes can be recognised. I do not believe this is sheer coincidence, or historical dispersion.
I would argue The creation myth was idneed much simpler until it got told and retold over the years and each added their own parts relevent to themselves.
There are some images inherently meaningful to man, which appear publicly in myths and privately in our dreams. These are the leftovers from an era before the human consciousness evolved into the complex entity that it is now: the inheritance of our evolutionary past. This is what Jung calls the collective unconscious.
con scion, consious interesting word. I would call it a common past.
However, myth is historically informed to a certain extent. Traditionally, most of the demons of Hindu mythology were equated with the indigenous tribes of India whom the invading Aryans killed or subjugated. Recently, there is a shift in the thinking which identifies them with the Aryans' enemies in Persia, the Zoroastrians (whose god is Ahura, while the generic name for demon in Indian mythology is "Asura") or Assyrians (see the similarity to Asura?). There is an impressive body of evidence to support these claims.
Yes indeed and from india to Asariana and to Iran (Aran) Iran to Akkadia, to Arcadia I am from what is called Acadia in Canada's east coast. We are called Indians.
But is it all? When one reads the myths with the inner eye fully open, one sees themes running much deeper than these superficial interpretations. The gods and demons are seen to have their roots firmly in the psyche. In fact, it is these universal symbols that we recognise in poems, stories, movies, paintings and other works of art and which makes these things resonate with us.

Nandu.
When I read myths I read them with one eye not three. If the right eye feeeds the left brain and the left brain is logic they one would expect to have a critical eye for logic. Does it work I have no idea just what I like to do when I first read a myth. I figure no point in me reading my symbolism into an already confusing myth. I try to avoid giving meaning to others thoughts or ideas. Like you mention art and peotry the only relavent interpetation of the true meaning of it can only come from the creator. Anything else is just Junk. Jung could well be right what do I really know?
Last edited by N8N on Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by N8N » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:57 pm

A J wrote:I have had a number of people criticize the title of my book on Murphy, A Myth in Action, because it made it seem, to them, that Murphy's exploits were not fact. One of the current meanings of the word is "falsehood," but that isn't the sense of the word as used by Campbell. How did he say it? "Myth is public dream; dreams are private myths." Or do I have the statements reversed?

AJ
Their problem is not with your title its with the definition of the word myth. I think your title is wonderful I like a "Story in Action" Instead of sitting and reading a story you become part of the story and travel through it. But I can see why believers of Myrphy would not like "Fairy Tales in Action". to them, that Murphy's exploits were not fact. :wink: Creators create followers believe, and intellectuals endlessly discuss the merits and meaning.
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Post by Clemsy » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:04 pm

You have said what I was trying to say much better. I was looking at it from a christian prospective. If I believe in Christ then he is real and alive. If I believe in Zeus then Christ must have been an upstart so to speak.
Actually this is true only from the biblical perspective. The pagans respected other's gods. Had no problem with them. In fact they often made the effort to match them up. The larger cities in the classical world had temples to everyone and often included a temple to the 'unkown god' to include anyone they left out.

Only the Biblical traditions claim to have the only one and true god.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by A J » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:06 pm

This post becomes a myth as soon as I press submit.
I completely agree. Once we put anything we write "out there," it is no longer ours, and becomes open to the interpretations of whoever reads it.
I try to avoid giving meaning to others thoughts or ideas. Like you mention art and peotry the only relavent interpetation of the true meaning of it can only come from the creator. Anything esle is just Junk.
Now here, if my interpretation of your words is a valid one, I would say that the "junk" cannot be avoided, because no two people have precisely the same perspective, and giving meaning to what we read is unavoidable.. I think that in one sense, each interpretation has some validity. And when several of us put our interpretations together, we can broaden our understanding.

Just me.

"Live never to be ashamed if anything you do or say is published around the world -- even if what is published is not true." Richard Bach; Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah.

AJ
"Sacred space and sacred time and something joyous to do is all we need. Almost anything then becomes a continuous and increasing joy."

A Joseph Campbell Companion: Reflections on the Art of Living
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Post by N8N » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:22 pm

Clemsy wrote:
You have said what I was trying to say much better. I was looking at it from a christian prospective. If I believe in Christ then he is real and alive. If I believe in Zeus then Christ must have been an upstart so to speak.
Actually this is true only from the biblical perspective. The pagans respected other's gods. Had no problem with them. In fact they often made the effort to match them up. The larger cities in the classical world had temples to everyone and often included a temple to the 'unkown god' to include anyone they left out.

Only the Biblical traditions claim to have the only one and true god.
Would be a radically different world if Christian were humble enough to occupy a small part of the "Unknown Gods" temple instead of wanting center stage.
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Post by Clemsy » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:24 pm

Yes!
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Post by N8N » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:32 pm

And when several of us put our interpretations together, we can broaden our understanding.
That is a definate step in the right direction. The pitfall of the of this becomes truth buy consensus. Like the world is flat. was Scientific truth of the day by consensus. And when all of the great thinkers agree. One little Indian speaks up with some heresay taken as heresy branded a heretic for saying the king has no clothes.

When I look for burried treasure I tend to dig down not look up.
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Post by A J » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:38 pm

The pitfall of the of this becomes truth buy consensus. Like the world is flat. was Scientific truth of the day by consensus.

Socially constructed reality. :D If we can reach the point where we realize it is not the whole picture, maybe we can relate to each other with more open minds.

AJ


"Sacred space and sacred time and something joyous to do is all we need. Almost anything then becomes a continuous and increasing joy."

A Joseph Campbell Companion: Reflections on the Art of Living
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Post by N8N » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:48 pm

A J wrote:The pitfall of the of this becomes truth buy consensus. Like the world is flat. was Scientific truth of the day by consensus.

Socially constructed reality. :D If we can reach the point where we realize it is not the whole picture, maybe we can relate to each other with more open minds.

AJ


Now thats the most creative way of saying BS that I ever saw :?
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When Nietzsche Wept

Post by Bhagavan Das » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:28 am

When Nietzsche Wept

interaction Nietzsche - Freud ("integration of conscious and subconscious")in an excellent movie - When Nietzsche Wept, after Nietzsche nervous breakdown (by hugging a horse, historical fact) he is helped by doctor that is impersonating his problems and allowing rolls to switch , so Nietzsche is finding what’s wrong with him without his ego as an obstacle, he is realizing that lust was reason for his mental collapse, Nietzsche had few students, sun of a priest, tried to reinvent morals , there is his "God is dead, we killed him", excessive resentment toward religion might have been caused by traumatic experience related to religion, it would be reasonable assumption that he might have been raped by a priest or perhaps even his father, that made him hate God, he might have not been able to separate religion from organized religion God from sin that might have come from fallen priest that abandoned religion for a lust that is enslaving a soul through psycomotoric chemical addiction, there is also moment when he is portrayed somewhat possessed acting as conductor where he is praising lust and hate , as in hate having its own psycomotoric chemical addiction and sensation of pleasure and addiction, several sources confirm that he himself was not anti-Semitic , that it was his sister that was married to a Nazi, that modified his writings, that would be easily provable by comparing earliest publications with those that came after. Some of his books were written entirely in madness, his rejection of God , that is part of superego is attempt to internalize omnipresence of God therefor laws of external and internal reality , in his concept of Superman, sensation that might have been chemically induced since cocaine might have been extracted about that time and was used without any knowledge of consequences and it was additive to alcohol so it was widely used more or less by everybody , cocaine leafs were used for long time before, Germans found it in analyzing mummies, south Americans used it in religious ceremonies , extracting cocaine and wide use of it might have been linked to World Wars and its madness, it was after that its overall nature and consequences was recognized.

Nietzsche lust led him to syphilis that was untreatable before penicillin, Schopenhauer had syphilis too, Aleksa Santic got it as far as we know from Vienna prostitute, It can be assumed that it happened to Caligula, Marquise De Sade (hospitalized) , Rasputin, Gilgamesh, Van Gough lived with a prostitute cut his ear then ended up in sanatorium, syphilis attacks the brain in its later faze, from the news reports how credible or not Saudi protesters were calling their king syphilitic , and even if healed leaves potential psychological scars and psychosis, pattern well known to sociologists and psychologists

Hitler was giving Nietzsche book to his troops, effect of his writings is that it dissolves ones morals, cultish appearance of his troops and his anger and rage in his speeches was heavily drug induced with a cocktail of drugs , his doctor Feel-good was shooting bull hormones in his veins.(Spiegel)

Nordic people do not have a pigment for a lack of exposure to Sun, they have long periods of a year without any Sun, barbaric Vikings invaded continental Europe, so lack of pigment and a blue ayes is rather anomaly than anything else, their superiority is as much as polar bear is superior to continental bear. If one looks into eugenics objectives, Africans have way to superior physicality and proportions incomparable to any European group, amount of pigment clearly depends on amount of Sun skin is exposed to , so there are Italians, Greeks, Portuguese, Egyptians, Middle east with less of a pigment, there for those assumptions that Jesus himself was not white man are justifiable by color of Jews who were Egyptians, scientifically through DNA analysis origin of mankind was traced to Africa, yet in and around WWII under heavily drug induced narcissistic delusion they started measuring peoples ears and noses , called Russians, who are northern nation, subhuman, as a meter of fact if one will attempt to look for those physical and aesthetic proportion among all nations Germans have poorest facial proportion among all,

there is published cia report from intelligence gathered from WWII that Hitler was homosexual and that his sexuality involved feces, there are other sources that state that he was homosexual during WWI, he was trying to get into Vienna's painters circuits, there is possibility that he renounced homosexuality, Nazis are often linked to sadomasochistic sexuality, there is unquestionable connection between character and sexual behavior, it is possible to deduce ones sexual behavior from ones character and other way around, sexual deviance very of culture but still some sexual behaviors are clearly deviant, for some reason Germans dominate if not that they are the only one who are producing pornography with feces, humiliation of oneself and his partner has something to do with that sexuality, sexual deviance correlates directly with psychotic behavior, if so there is not such a thing as innocent sexual deviance.

French had Foucault homosexual pedophile that was lecturing on sexuality, British had Huxley who adapted pedophilia in his ideal society just like other ornament in his collection of promiscuity and perversion, US and their sexual revolution brought them to a point where they switch partners legally as swingers with a marriage license, American Italian mobster character in a movie response for bj was "how can I let her kiss my children after that", they spit at their partners, urinating on women has its sexual stile and appeal, it wasn't like that before, during civil war some women that lost their husbands would die from sorrow, now it’s more like in one of those movies about Iraq they mail their sex tape with a neighbor to their husbands, over all woman so called liberation is heavily overlapping with social environment where she is almost expected to be promiscuous, used and abandoned.
“Tin Drum” by German writer Gunter Grass is a Nobel Prize awarded work that depicts delusional consequences of pursuing false self-destructive belief systems.

Jung worn swastika too, one of his key ground breaking conclusions - “mental disorder is related to ones true relation to God”, his response to swastika was "I slipped"

Source:
THE SPIRIT IN MAN, ART AND LITERATURE- Jung
OSS report- The Mind of Adolf Hitler
The Disappearance of God: A Divine Mystery- Richard Elliott Friedman
High Hitler – Documentary ; drugs, syphilis, lifelong personal doctor syphilologist

Clash of the Titans (1981 film)

it might be assumed that it happened to Greeks at some point and ended up recorded in mythology, Russians had Rasputin before they collapse , Romans had Caligula, therefor there might be a pattern of lustful , incestuous behavior linked to disorder and collapse of civilizations.
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