That Which is Sacred

What needs do mythology and religion serve in today's world and in ancient times? Here we discuss the relationship between mythology, religion and science from mythological, religious and philosophical viewpoints.

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Andreas
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Post by Andreas » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:42 pm

Maybe...I have my theories. This is not the point I was trying to make though. Anyways... :)
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki
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Post by CarmelaBear » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:31 am

The Shamanism video raises a lot of earth-shaking issues.

It is the kind of sacred ritual that has to be among the most visceral forms of worship. The fact that it is so much in tune with nature creates a deep connection to our contemporary concerns for the planet and our own individual consciousness.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by CarmelaBear » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:04 pm

Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 » Tue May 01, 2012 1:19 am

'The history of religions reaches down and makes contact with that
which is essentially human: the relation of man to the sacred. The
history of religions can play an extremely important role in the
crisis we are living through. The crises of modern man are to a
large extent religious ones, insofar as they are an awakening of his
awareness to an absence of meaning.'
Mircea Eliade

C.G. JUNG & MIRCEA ELIADE:‘PRIESTS WITHOUT SURPLICES’?
Reflections on the Place of Myth, Religion and Science in Their Work
by Harry Oldmeadow

http://www.seriousseekers.com/News%20an ... eliade.pdf

Thanks
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Post by Ercan2121 » Tue May 01, 2012 1:41 am

Let me also suggest Youtube links for an animation film of Farid ud-Din Attar’s
timeless masterwork, The Conference of The Birds;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJgNrGoRwT4 Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebiUwf6M ... ure=relmfu Part 2
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Post by CarmelaBear » Wed May 16, 2012 2:46 pm

Thank you, Ercan.

8)
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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The sacred

Post by Roncooper » Wed May 16, 2012 10:14 pm

Thank you Ercan,

You have made my mind race from all that interesting input. I have a quesstion and a few comments.

First, I watched the beautiful video and enjoyed the message. It, however, made me think of a question. At the end the birds are instructed that when they realize that they are not separate and are really the whole, then they will cease to suffer. I have read this from several religious works, and it begs the question, If I am not separate and there is suffering somewhere, then isn't it I who suffer? I would appreciate some help with this.

Second, I read the article about Jung and Eliade and can only conclude that they were of the highest intellect. They seemed to be the only intellectuals with open minds.They sensed the impossibility of understanding consciousness and did not jump to unjustified conclusions. Zen exists to get Buddhists beyond the intellect, but this was not their path. They stayed true to their reason and left the question open for those who came later. They should be given praise for this.

The scientist who says the physical universe is all there is, has a closed mind which is an intellectual flaw. There are pragmatic reason for him to jump to this conclusion, hower.

Ron
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Re: The sacred

Post by CarmelaBear » Mon May 28, 2012 12:24 am

Roncooper wrote:Thank you Ercan,

You have made my mind race from all that interesting input. I have a quesstion and a few comments.

First, I watched the beautiful video and enjoyed the message. It, however, made me think of a question. At the end the birds are instructed that when they realize that they are not separate and are really the whole, then they will cease to suffer. I have read this from several religious works, and it begs the question, If I am not separate and there is suffering somewhere, then isn't it I who suffer? I would appreciate some help with this.

Ron
Joyful participation in the suffering of the world....

...by expressing sorrow in a sacred sound or creating a transformative experience or sharing a hug or feeling the exhileration of outrage in the face of abject injustice or returning a favor or mirroring the feelings of others or remembering a birthday or laughing with friends or supporting an unpopular cause or encouraging a child or feeding a kitten or not slapping someone who may deserve it or exercising when you're feeling lazy or being transfixed by a painting or reciting poetry or climbing to a high place....or holding a hand as a last breath signals loss.

Religion, spirituality, myth and art are responses to suffering and death. They are sacred precisely because they take what we know for sure and use it to mediate what we have absolutely no way of observing or measuring and we may never be able to know.

Science is not in a position to put a face on what is unknown and unknowable. Linear left brain science can only label it a mystery. It is the right brain of the artist and the mystic that can address the reality of illusion and the illusiveness of the real world.

Even Steven Hawking has a right brain, and I guarantee that he has experienced the joy of suspending disbelief long enough to experience timelessness.

:shock:
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by Neoplato » Mon May 28, 2012 12:52 am

Joyful participation in the suffering of the world....
Gives me indigestion. :x
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.
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Post by CarmelaBear » Mon May 28, 2012 6:38 pm

Neoplato wrote:
Joyful participation in the suffering of the world....
Gives me indigestion. :x
Have you noticed that doing something constructive to alleviate suffering can contribute to feelings of self respect? It's a deep down in the gut kind of regard for your own capacity to do something seriously worthwhile.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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Post by Neoplato » Mon May 28, 2012 9:47 pm

CarmelaBear wrote:
Neoplato wrote:
Joyful participation in the suffering of the world....
Gives me indigestion. :x
Have you noticed that doing something constructive to alleviate suffering can contribute to feelings of self respect? It's a deep down in the gut kind of regard for your own capacity to do something seriously worthwhile.

~
The problem is that I can't do something construtive and worthwhile. I can only go to my assigned prison cell everyday and get paid so I can pay the bills. Especially when my job goes against everything I believe in.

Yes, paying the bills is good and providing for my family. But the conflict of my mental concepts with the nonsense of my job is an ordeal of survival. I have no motivation to endure endless nonsense even if it feeds my children. :(
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.
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Re: The sacred

Post by Nermin » Tue May 29, 2012 3:27 am

Roncooper wrote:
First, I watched the beautiful video and enjoyed the message. It, however, made me think of a question. At the end the birds are instructed that when they realize that they are not separate and are really the whole, then they will cease to suffer. I have read this from several religious works, and it begs the question, If I am not separate and there is suffering somewhere, then isn't it I who suffer? I would appreciate some help with this.

Ron
Ron, welcome to JCF forums.
I believe that your point has to do with our level of acceptance. When we admit that
what makes our lives precious is our zeal to grow spiritually and that the real joy is
hidden in the process or the journey, makes things a lot easier. Acceptance doesn't
mean that we start living in constant joy. As Carmela beautifully stated, that's a joyful
participation to the sorrows of the world and here, the joyful part often comes from an
awareness far more vivid about life. Tha'ts still a big, engimatic drama but our attitude changes.
At least, that's my way of understanding your question -IMHO.
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Post by Roncooper » Tue May 29, 2012 8:01 pm

Carmelabear,
I see your point, but I also sympathize with Neoplato. When my wife and I babysit our grandsons, my wife has this loving bond with them that makes her eyes sparkle and she thinks of all the things we should do, whereas I just get depressed.

My wife swims in unconditional love and I can't get there. I have thought about this a lot and I think the eternal mystery touches us in different ways. She is touched by love and for me it is beauty, the eternal beauty of art, especially music.

If I listen to a song like "The Pearl" by Emmylou Harris, I am born again. Most people would be bored stiff listening to such a difficult song. Don't try it without the lyics in any case.

I have a comment about Hawking. His claims are another example of an intellectual with a closed mind who is overreaching. These are considered flaws of the intellect, and while there are a lot of Hawking followers, his conclusions are not justified.

For Nermin,

Thank you for the comments. I can accept that the universe is God playing. I am the whole thing being me for the pleasure of the play. But lately I have thought of another explanation, because if life were a play our acting would be better.

Now I think the eternal mystery is broadcasting instructions to us 24/7, and we just don't hear. It is only when we are thrown out of our rut by some unusual event that we listen. It could be a trip to a mountain, or drugs, etc. Everything comes together and we are instructed. We are like cats who are meant to go to the stars. We will get there eventually, but it will take a while. Our unnessary suffering will go down as we learn.

Am I lost again?

Roncooper
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Post by Neoplato » Tue May 29, 2012 9:48 pm

Sounds like we're in the same boat Ron. Music helps me as well. :wink:
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.
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Post by CarmelaBear » Wed May 30, 2012 2:53 pm

Neoplato wrote: The problem is that I can't do something construtive and worthwhile. I can only go to my assigned prison cell everyday and get paid so I can pay the bills. Especially when my job goes against everything I believe in. :(
The job allows you to do something worthwhile.....pay bills to support your family. Please do not discount the value of your sacrifice. It is all the more heroic on account of your feelings about the work and your high level of skill.

When you are not at work, you are spending time with the family.....what could be more constructive than being there for them?

You spend time with us, too. That's got to be worth several gold stars smack on the forehead, right next to the prison number. We are proud of you, Neo. You have a lot more to be humble about than most folks. Your family and your friends have taken notice. Your sacrifices count. Mark one, two, three..........to infinity and beyond!

:D
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene
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