Poetic Naturalism

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romansh
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Poetic Naturalism

Post by romansh » Thu May 05, 2016 2:08 am

I just finished reading Sean Carroll's The Big Picture. it basically a philosophical introspection of what science means for some of our everyday questions.

I would definitely recommended it for everyone.
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Post by romansh » Sat May 28, 2016 3:12 pm

Not quite on topic ... read this last night in bed and could not help being reminded of Campbell.
We show deference to our leaders, pay respect to our elders, and follow the dictates of our shamans; since this is the Age of Science, it is scientism's shamans who command our veneration. Third, because of language we are also storytelling, mythmaking primates. with scientism as the functional stratum of our storytelling and scientists as the premier mythmakers of our age.
Any guesses as to who might have written this ... without googling and the like?
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Post by Roncooper » Sat May 28, 2016 4:08 pm

I give up, who said this?

It looks like an interesting book. I won't read it though, too depressing for me. It made me revisit the concept of grace and that we must do our best without it.

We do not earn the experience of "Thou art that," it is a gift.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton
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Post by romansh » Mon May 30, 2016 2:11 am

Michael Shermer
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Post by Roncooper » Mon May 30, 2016 7:11 pm

Michael Shermer.

A very interesting character. He tries to keep an objective perspective and has been a real service to society.

His biography says that he is a political libertarian. Oh well nobodies perfect.
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Post by romansh » Tue May 31, 2016 12:39 am

Roncooper wrote:Michael Shermer.

A very interesting character. He tries to keep an objective perspective and has been a real service to society.

His biography says that he is a political libertarian. Oh well nobodies perfect.
If by perfection you mean someone does not meet your desires, then I would agree.


But I really don't see one pattern of atoms (whatever) any more (or less) perfect than another.

And if we do buy into this dualism, then how is Shermer not perfect if god is in him?
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Post by Roncooper » Tue May 31, 2016 2:32 am

Rom,

I'm not following your comments.

The libertarian party in the US is made up of people who take full advantage of the system, but don't want to pay for it.
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Post by romansh » Tue May 31, 2016 2:05 pm

Roncooper wrote:Rom,

I'm not following your comments.

The libertarian party in the US is made up of people who take full advantage of the system, but don't want to pay for it.
Michael is a pattern of atoms (past and future). You describe one aspect of that pattern as Libertarian.

Note, libertarians with a lower case L believe in free will.

Also my understanding of Libertarians are that they are fiscally conservative. ie don't over borrow. But they are not into personal governmental regulation.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/
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Post by Roncooper » Tue May 31, 2016 5:28 pm

When Ron Paul, a leading spokesman for the Libertarian movement in the US was interviewed about the role of government, he said that government should not supply emergency services like ambulances. The interviewer asked, but what if someone is in an accident and is injured by the side or the road?

Paul replied, that's their tough luck.

I saw this interview.

I think we can do better.
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Post by romansh » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:23 am

Roncooper wrote:When Ron Paul, a leading spokesman for the Libertarian movement in the US was interviewed about the role of government, he said that government should not supply emergency services like ambulances. The interviewer asked, but what if someone is in an accident and is injured by the side or the road?

Paul replied, that's their tough luck.

I saw this interview.

I think we can do better.
Quite ... and the sun causes hurricanes, the Earth causes earthquakes, many diseases have helped shape human beings to what they are today.

I get your dislike of Ron Paul.


You have been shaped that way.

And when you say we can do better do you mean we can do otherwise to meet what you think of as a "better" world?
A political question ... are all Libertarians against government providing ambulance services? Is Michael Shermer?
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Post by Roncooper » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:03 am

I think I have a better understanding of materialism. Scientific materialists receive their reality from scientific machines. Machines determine what is real and what is not. Machine's eyes are better then our eyes and their ears are better than our ears.

They are superior to us and we accept their word.

I remember Campbell talking about the Indians who worshiped animals because they were stronger and faster, and had better eyes.

Perhaps our longing to ne machines comes from the same place.
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Post by romansh » Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:39 pm

I must admit I don't think you understand materialism Ron. At least not in the way I do.

A materialist understands that we speak in metaphors.

A materialist has an appreciation of what they find beautiful ... could be a sunset, a machine, poem or an equation.

Materialists have emotions, make mistakes just like everyone else.

A materialist understands that the mechanics of a machine, a human, animate and inanimate in general are based on the same causative effects that shape our universe.

A materialist does not assume the existence of panentheistic type entities without some evidence. And if sufficient evidence were observed they would incorporate that entity into materialist world view.
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Post by romansh » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:11 pm

I came across this Richard Feynman quote:
Is no one inspired by our present picture of the universe? This value of science remains unsung by singers, you are reduced to hearing not a song or poem, but an evening lecture about it. This is not yet a scientific age.
I wonder what Joseph Campbell would have thought of it if he would have come across it?
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Post by Roncooper » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:26 pm

I know Feynman. We worked in the same building. He was a very human physicist. He didn't drink but he sometimes hung out in a topless bar. When the city closed the bar, the owner sued and Feynman was a witness for the bar. He said it was a great place to think. It didn't help.


I love science, and don't have a problem with determinism or materialism in a limited role.

I do remember there was an old poem about neutrinos called "Cosmic Gall." I'll se if I can find it.
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Post by Roncooper » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:31 pm

Cosmic Gall
John Updike

Neutrinos they are very small.

They have no charge and have no mass

And do not interact at all.

The earth is just a silly ball

To them, through which they simply pass,

Like dustmaids down a drafty hall

Or photons through a sheet of glass.

They snub the most exquisite gas,

Ignore the most substantial wall,

Cold-shoulder steel and sounding brass,

Insult the stallion in his stall,

And, scorning barriers of class,

Infiltrate you and me! Like tall

And painless guillotines, they fall

Down through our heads into the grass.

At night, they enter at Nepal

And pierce the lover and his lass

From underneath the bed – you call

It wonderful; I call it crass.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton
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