Greetings and a hearty welcome to the forums Sidian. Stephen Gerringer our chief moderator should stop by at some point to give you a few pointers; (alas the site is undergoing a few modifications concerning topical arrangements); but nothing to be concerned about; just reorganizing some things. He will be able to advise you in more depth concerning your question about Personal Myth; but I’ll offer a few things that might be of help in the meantime.

Actually there is quite a bit of information concerning your query that dives deep into this subject because; yes; as your have suspected it is definitely a major theme of Joseph’s; but I’ll let Stephen address this aspect in more detail when he can stop by for a friendly chat.

One way to think about this term if I may offer is: “your story”. Well you probably figured that out by now; huh! But in Jungian parlance; which is a somewhat different approach than that of mythical themes and a somewhat of different way to approach this; I’m going to suggest a couple of places to help get you started in the meantime.

In the above section called Creative Mythology there is a short topic thread that has some conversations you might like; plus a very good clip of Joseph explaining the Jungian approach of what he called: “the Left Hand Path” of the hero quest; and the topic about your story is discussed in the bottom thread of this category. I think you’ll like this one a lot because it’s quick and jumps right into it. But for a couple of deeper dives up in the MythBlast section there are two different threads with Dennis Patrick Slattery that explore this theme in much more depth. (These are at the top of the forum page with his name on them so you should have no problem finding them.)

One word of caution should be mentioned for first time users of these forums is “discussion navigation” if the topic has several participants engaged; and that is pay special attention to which person you are reading because the entries will follow that particular individual concerning what is being addressed and “who is talking to who”. (Sounds confusing but actually you will get the hang of it shortly; just watch the entry number and sequence as you scroll up and down the page; and the indention of the particular person being addressed.) Stephen can help you with this once he comes by. I would start with the Story thread just to get the hang of things; and then as your interest and familiarity with the format increases you’ll probably begin to feel more comfortable with everything.

One last suggestion if you feel adventurous is on the border to your left you will see a red button that says: “Visit the COAHO Archives”. Click on that and it will take you to the older version of the original forums; which are now archived; (but not available to post in); these contain a wealth of older material; and yes; contain an entire category devoted especially to “Personal Mythology”. These forums contain literally thousands of entries so you can wander them to your hearts content; (you just can’t enter anything because they are now retired and out of commission). Enjoy.

So kick your shoes off and get relaxed and have spin around the place. You are among friends; and we’re glad to have you here.

SidianMSJones

Uncovering the personal myth playing out in our lives, which may differ dramatically from what we think or want our myth to be, is indeed the genius of Joseph Campbell’s mythological perspective. Though the giants in the field who preceded Joseph Campbell studied myth to understand other cultures and add to human knowledge, he was one of the first to grasp that mythology has relevance in our lives today (building on that foundation Jung laid).

I have met a few in the field of mythology who look askance at the idea of personal mythology. One scholar with a depth psychology orientation recently suggested that the concept of personal myth deceptively provides “honey-sweet ‘positive’ content for our lives”; his criticism is that one adopts a personal myth (as if it’s a conscious choice), which he sees as no more than a pleasant lie we tell ourselves.

Many of the same critics have no trouble with Jung’s recognition, after writing Symbols of Transformation, that he did not know by what myth he was living, and they applaud his subsequent determination “to get to know ‘my’ myth,” which he regarded “as my tasks of tasks . . . I simply had to know what unconscious or preconscious myth was forming me, from what rhizome I sprang.”

Nevertheless, even though Jung uses  the term “personal myth” several times in Memories, Dreams, Reflections, and elsewhere, in the exact same way as does Campbell, some (though far from all) I know with a Jungian bent dismiss the term, preferring to refer to this  exclusively as the “process of individuation,” or “the symbolic life” – terms which also apply – but the  implication is that Jung’s approach is distinct from Campbell’s perspective.

I suspect that is based on the perception (or perhaps projection might be the more appropriate term) that “personal mythology” has become a New Age mantra – sparkly, glittering, “honey-sweet,” and lacking in intellectual rigor.

That is far from my understanding and experience of the process of uncovering and plumbing the mythological dynamics driving and shaping my life, which turn out to be at odds with my ego perspective. “Investigating the subjective contents which are the products of unconscious processes . . . to explore the manifestations of the unconscious” (again borrowing from Jung’s description of his personal myth) can be uncomfortable and emotionally wrenching – not at all the “happy happy joy joy” misunderstanding some critics have of what they think Campbell means by personal mythology.

Your original post landed just days before we planned to unveil this new forum category, “Exploring Your Personal Mythology.” We’ve moved yours and a few relevant threads from other categories into this forum, but your comment is the one that most specifically addresses the topic. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

SidianMSJones; now that Stephen has provided a more comprehensive introduction to your query and has provided a more re-organized reformatting of the forums your search may be a bit easier to seek out some of the answers concerning your own personal myth, or story you may want to research. It is of course “personal to you” as the motif or template suggests; but no matter how you frame it there are certain ideas that may be helpful in finding your own pathway through your journey.

As you have no doubt encountered there are varying points of interpretation of what constitutes this concept as Stephen has offered; and in particular one that most often gets misunderstood is this: “Follow Your Bliss” theme and a what it has to do with what a myth is in relation to this idea of the: Hero/Quest/Journey and it’s relationship to Jung’s ideas. And indeed Joseph was quoted as saying: “I should have said: “Follow your blisters”; so that should give you some sense of how he viewed this very deep personal process of psychological and spiritual transformation within a human lifetime.

So as you start exploring I’m going to provide a link to an older piece introduced by our former Jungian moderator; Cindy Bias; back on the earlier forums that helped clear up some of the ambiguity people often encounter with this subject. It was written in 1986 by: Donald Kalsched and Alan Jones called; “Myth and Psyche: The Evolution of Consciousness”; which should go a long way in helping to bridge the confusion between Campbell and Jung and how their ideas line up. There are lots of places to start; depending of what interests you; so it should be easier now to pick something when you’re ready.

Stephen’s explanation was just wonderful and I don’t see how it could be improved on; so back to your request we’ll look forward to hearing from you or anyone else who has thoughts they might want to share.

Greetings Sidian MSJones.

Sidian wrote, “The topic is fascinating though as it unlocks a slew of highly metaphorical information about ourselves: when have you taken on the role of the warrior? In what ways have you been searching for the Holy Grail? Have you ever unknowingly acted out the myth of the hoarding dragon?

Is anyone else here interested in Personal Mythology?

I am Sidian, very much so, and as Stephen wrote, “Investigating the subjective contents which are the products of unconscious processes . . . to explore the manifestations of the unconscious” (again borrowing from Jung’s description of his personal myth) can be uncomfortable and emotionally wrenching – not at all the “happy happy  joy joy” misunderstanding some critics have of what they think Campbell means by personal mythology.”

That’s it, Sidian,  exploring my personal myth is not “happy happy joy joy’ for me, and sometimes I am not sure whether I am looking at my personal myth from “inside looking out” or “outside looking in”. But it’s a friend’s  story/myth that had me quite taken. Talk about searching the “Holy Grail” — To me it appeared a myth of  “unconditional love”

No matter how difficult, no matter how trying, she was on the side of “unconditional love”.   Then one day,  Joe Campbell’s quote freed her from her ‘old personal myth’, and she had a soft landing into a ‘new personal myth’. By the way, I was recently acquainted with this term ‘old personal myth’ vs. ‘new personal myth’ through Prof. Dennis Slattery’s presentation called “Belief as Myth”.  A fascinating presentation, where in the Q&A session he reflected on a few questions, one being, ‘how do we know that we have come to the end of one myth, and need to move onto a next one?”  But I digress, because my intention here is to share the old myth story vs. the new myth story.

Here is a brief glimpse, (without names)

Her father was a banker, and her mother a fixer of all things, from furniture to linen, from doors and window sills and all others in between. Her mother could fix furniture like none other in business. This I know because I now own three hand-polished chairs from Kirkland Lake, hand scrubbed, re-polished and hand stained to a silky satin finish by her mother.

By and by, as she got older, she began to question the culture of the place, the place of women, especially smart women in it. She observed the condition of the mine-workers, working for pittance, in the gold mines owned by Mr. Oaks.  Their plight is well illustrated in this 2002 article,

“An accident in a mine is usually sudden. Hard rock, steel and blasting powder are not considerate of soft flesh and brittle bone. Death in most cases is gruesome, lonely, painful, bloody or suffocating. Death in a mine is not gentle.”

As she grew, so did her longing to fix the condition of the mine workers around her. She took it upon herself to talk to the ladies, and make them question their despondent state and misery.

In school, she wrote fascinating stories, and perhaps poetry too. Her writings were rich with words that she had collected and sewn together for a dramatic effect on listeners and especially her teachers. She thought of the many widows, left behind, and the cruel and most ugly treatment delivered to their families.

The teachers never expected her to write so well, so instead of empowering her with more challenging work, they politely hid their admiration in a way that was natural to them. And on her side, she hid her talents in the service of modesty and humility.

One can well imagine from these brief glimpses into her life, as to the direction it would take.  She was no longer interested in Kirkland Lake because it lacked music and it lacked life.  Music was one thing that stirred her little world, and each time she had enough left over from all her benevolent activities, she would run over to a local store and buy a new LP.

Once while running to the store for a LP,  she met a young woman in distress, and from then onward, she made sure that her own pockets were full so as to be of help to her and all others living through some sad misadventure. She ensured that  her personal pocket funds were enough for five or six different families. Now you can well imagine her collection of people and places that needed her attention in Kirkland Lake. With such a kind heart and gentle ways, she also attracted many suitors.

Among her suitors, there was one handsome lad named “B….”, and he couldn’t help admiring her, couldn’t help loving her, he couldn’t help gifting her with flowers when she was far away.  Even though she made it clear, that she was far too independent to be just ‘someone’s wife’, he harbored the deepest sentiments for her. When she left Kirkland Lake to live in London, England, he was broken-hearted, but he comforted himself by sending her a dozen red roses a week.

Fast forward into 2020:  Now in her senior years, she found herself quite burned and scorched through years of sacrifice she realized she could not deliver that ‘unconditional love’, without injuring herself. Yet she hung onto her “Holy Grail”. Then one day, (2021) while surfing the net, she came across Joe’s words,

“ I personally don’t even think that unconditional love is an ideal. I think you’ve got to have a discriminating faculty and let bastards be bastards and let those that ought to be hit in the jaw get it. In fact, I have a list. If anybody has a working guillotine, I’d be glad to give them my list.”
A Joseph Campbell Companion

That was the end of her old myth, and beginning of a new one. The discriminating faculty is working towards a new adventure. Here again,  I am reminded of what Dennis said in his presentation, “you know that the old myth is dying when you can’t do much anymore..”

Shaahayda (with gratitude to all who participate here)

  https://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2002-11-01/book-review-lamps-forever-lit

Hi, Sidean MSJon and Everyone,

I am deeply interested in personal myth; before I knew of a term or name for it, I sensed personal myth’s presence in my life and could see this type of thing in operation in the lives of my family members and friends. Too, surely, some of this was the myths we lived together. As a writer, musician, and Jungian, all the things I love tend to myths and to those myths like stories and song and dance within my personal myth.

As a child I ran the woods around my house by the lake, and it was kind of like a fairy tale existence for me and my friends. I was lucky to have a mom who loved the arts and all things culture, so she took me to the library twice a week before I could even read and all though my early years until I could go myself. She was musical and played piano and organ and noted I was musical so made sure I had piano and dance lessons. Oh and because we lived by one of the Great Lakes she also made sure I had swimming lessons. My dad loved folklore and folk music and cartoons and telling stories. I was fortunate to have a charmed childhood. But that does not mean everything always came up roses. There is also poison ivy in the woods and ships and boats sometimes wrecked. But whether about the happy and glad or the sad I wrote things down, including my nighttime dreams. I wrote about owls I heard or turtles I found in the yard by the pond. I wrote my first poem in kindergarten. It went like this:

I found a frog

sitting on a log

and chased it but lost it

because there was fog.

Ever since I was a child I have loved studying ancient cultures and their myths and folklore from around the world, and the arts. My best memories in life are the books I have read, the films I have seen, the songs I have learned, and the dances. And then my times out in nature. That is true to this day. It to me is like a reel of film of my life story entwined with movies and theater and ballet, with the music throughout my life the soundtrack of my life. I spend most my life and time writing about my personal myth in the form of poetry, fiction, and creative non-fiction. As a writer by vocation (yes, at one time I did write for a living in A & E and community/human interest stories and moonlighting as an adjunct prof teaching writing) and a Jungian, I am very much about personal myth. I always say that the word myth as a word scramble is thym—thyme, or time. The myths emit in time and time emits through the myths and thus is the spice of life within its time and goes down in time. And here in thym, we can see half the word rhythm.

As Stephen  brought up, some people do say that personal myths and memoir allow us to sugar coat the past if we want to, but not everyone does this. I have mostly good memories and they are true memories; however, I do not sweep all dust under the rug either, and recognize the difficult or sad things from my past also.

I will later add another post response about what characters and/or situations from classical or non-classical mythology I feel akin to in living their/that myth.

All for now, with gratitude for this lovely fun and personable topic,

Marianne

Stephen,

I have myself never heard a Jungian substitute the conceptual term individuation for the conceptual term personal myth, though they are related and to whatever extent entwined. I would be interested in seeing any references you have where I could see Jungians doing this. I can also imagine that some people might do this and understand how or why it might be easy (and perhaps lazy?) for some to do so.

Individuation is described very well by Jungian analyst Daryl Sharp, whose Jungian lexicon I have sometimes referenced in my posts here in the forums. (I also find much practical use for it in daily life). First and foremost, in its most general umbrella meaning, Sharp defines it as “a process of psychological differentiation, having for its goal the development of the individual personality [emphasis mine]. To me this is a reminder that there would be little to no individuation without the differentiation aspect within its dynamics. Jung was also careful to warn people against over-identifying with any one mythic character because the archetype itself is so much larger than we are. Again, we need to differentiate between the god we feel our lives embody and our own ego, lest we have a bunch of people running around the streets proclaiming to be Jesus in his second coming–Sharp goes on to express that, “it is the development of the psychological individual as a being distinct from the general, collective psychology.” Reading the rest of Sharp’s definitive essay, one can do their best to try to apply this differentiation process towards one’s personal mythological process. Another vital concept within individuation is dreams. Jung said/wrote that dreams are the royal road to the unconscious, and while we cannot say that knowing the unconscious (bringing the unconscious to light of day or consciousness) is the only factor in individuation, it is part of the process when we do dreamwork and also our work upon our complexes–when we find what buttons push our behaviors. By paying attention and working with our dreams so as to understand them (to whatever point or extent one finds possible and we have to remember that there can be multiple meanings to any one dream) we grant ourselves a grand favor.

Perhaps in this thread we could take some time to unravel  then list differentiations we can make in whatever ways we each do so–or discuss what this concept of differentiation means to us and how it plays out in each our lives and possibly then examine too how these could differ from the collective–and apply this to our personal myths (to include our dreams, I suggest).

As for the symbolic life,  I am one of those Jungians who does not equate what is called the symbolic life with individuation either, although I regard symbols as a key to the many doors on the “path of individuation.” I was not aware that some Jungians substitute these terms, either. I would like to see where this has been written or hear where this has been said, too. Would be interesting!

Best,

Marianne

Source:  Retrieved from The Jung Lexicon by Daryl Sharp

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to mention that there is a Campbell audio lecture about personal mythology called “Personal Myth” (1.4.5).

Lynn

Hello Shaheda; I’ve been thinking about your idea a lot for several days now and here is what it represents to me. Joseph talked on many occasions about Jung’s process in getting in touch with his inner myth or (mind-space) if you will; to try and understand what this thing actually was; or put another way; “to understand what it was that was forming him from the inside out”. Now if I remember correctly from his book: “Memories, Dreams and Reflections” his “Red Book” was what came out of this process. Joseph also commented several times: (via your childhood games reference); that he would move big rocks around; (the creation of his home: “Bollingen”); because building little cities and houses was what he enjoyed as child and he was recreating this activity on a much larger scale and got enormous pleasure from his home he created.

(You may know all of this already); and Joseph went on to say that the individual must find their own playground to do this. (Dennis for instance talks about his painting as an example he mentioned to us before.) Here is where we get into one of Joseph’s most well known concepts of creating one’s: “Sacred Space”. Now this may or may not resonate with your ideas; but I’m pretty sure this was the concept he was suggesting. There are certainly ideas along this line stated in various ways like: (Dream work of course); along with journaling or constructing your own art expressions mentioned in some of our MythBlast discussions. But the main term I’ve heard Joseph use that to me seems to fit this idea along with what you heard in the “Personal Myth lecture; which I’ve listened to as well; is in: “Modern Myths of Quest” – Lecture: II.I.6 of: “Symbolic Realization”; where he talks about integration within the Individuation process of going down into your inner world and finding what’s down there and accessing it to inform you of how to make this later life transition within the Sacred Space mind-space. A lot of Joseph’s lectures I’ve listened to talk about these same concepts; but in different ways. (Since I haven’t listened to that particular one in a while what you mentioned about the little girl jumping rope I believe is an example of the very same thing but of course I could be mistaken.)

Not to overstate the obvious I think the point Joseph is making is to utilize your childhood experiences as metaphoric tools through personal artistic expressions. A few helpful books I’ve come across on ways to do this would be Stephen Larson’s excellent book: “The Mythic Imagination”; where he shows various techniques like: drawing, group mask making and role playing and photography to reveal some of these inner themes that are working inside you. And I particularly like Sam Keen’s: “Your Mythic Journey” where he and Anne Valley-Fox take some of the things to think about that were used in the workshops he and Joseph put together during the yearly gatherings at Esalen Institute. Some extras to add would be Michael Toms: “An Open Life”; Diane Osbon’s “Reflections on the Art of Living – A Joseph Campbell Companion”; and of course: “Pathways to Bliss” edited by David Kudler; along with “Power of Myth”. Some of these books you probably already have but other people reading this may not be aware of them.  As for myself I developed my own process with my music, photography, reading material and writing; (much of this is connected to my own life narrative); and organized into different sequenced time periods where I can see and understand how my life has unfolded and the various ways it has changed over time. But each person develops their own process.

At any rate these are just some suggestions to explore if you’re interested; (although it sounds like you may have already started to develop your own system). But the point I think Joseph is saying is there is no necessary standard roadmap for this inner process as he mentions in the clip below because the revelations come through the alchemy of discovery within the experience of doing it; and that it should be things that you deeply love spending time doing; and “not” a procedural prescribed system like following steps 1 through 10, etc. (Certainly Stephen, Aidian, yourself, or others may have more to add about this so I’ll stop here.)

(A little synchronistic experience I had this morning I’ll share I took a clue from) while thinking about this post was that every couple of weeks or so I usually check the JCF YouTube channel to see if there are any new additional clips that have been added. Well; low and behold here was this little clip from the: “Power of Myth” series with Bill Moyers only 2 hours old that had been added. So see if this clip about: “Sacred Spaces” speaks to your question.

Hello James,

So kind and thoughtful of you to write back with your thoughts on the subject of childhood symbols.

“Now if I understand this correctly his “Red Book” was what came out of this process. Joseph also commented several times: (via your childhood games reference); that he would move big rocks around; (the creation of his home: “Bollingen”);

Yes, he mentions Jung’s reinvention of his childhood symbols in several works. He reinvented his symbols by building his own house in Bollingen…which led to fascinating dreams that resulted in the “Red Book”, and also friends and scholars came into his life.  Lynn also posted a link to Campbell’s lecture on “personal myth”. There too, he goes into the importance of childhood symbols and dreams.

On dreams, he talks about Freud’s interpretation of dreams. I found this very interesting especially the way Joe phrased that. He says, when Freud interprets  the symbols in terms of the inspiration and zeal from the lower end of our biology (waist down) instead of the neck up, he has misunderstood the whole thing. Since the whole sense of the mythic imagery is to pitch you in the the spiritual realm but Freud’s interpretation pulls you down, deflates and breaks the symbol.

Thank you also for this wonderful reminder of ” “Modern Myths of Quest” – Lecture: II.I.6 of: “Symbolic Realization”; which he talks about integration within the Individuation process of going down into your inner world ” . I’ll definitely look into that lecture too.

I  just read something similar, ” The first thing I’d do would be to think, “What are, specifically, the symbols that are still active, still touching me this way?” What are the symbols? There’s a great context of symbols in the world. Not all of them are the ones that afflict you. When you do find the symbol that is blocking you, find some mode of thinking and experience that matches in its importance for you what the symbol meant. You cannot get rid of a sym-bol if you haven’t found that to which it refers.” (The Collected Works of Joseph Campbell Book 2)

“When the symbols are interpreted spiritually rather than concretely, then they yield the revelation.”

Also James, Thank you for mentioning Dennis’ works. I have visited his website and blog, and feasted on some very precious writings there. With reference to personal myths, he cited Joe Campbell, “Joseph Campbell believes that myths reveal the movement of psyche, indeed “of the whole nature of man and his destiny” (Flight,35)

So thank you James, and I shall definitely revisit the Modern Myths of Quest and the Flight of the Wild Gander.

Shaheda

I thought you had already come across a bunch of these concepts but I wasn’t sure; so sorry for the added revisit. The “Modern Myths of Quest” I think you’ll like because it gives an overview of many of the Jungian themes he often talks about but states them a bit differently than usual. Here is a quick clip from one of them concerning the “symbolic realization and not becoming concretely fixed” idea I was mentioning which is a good example. Sounds like you are already on your way; so I’ll end here.

Hello All,

Such an interesting topic and I am hoping we’ll have this thread alive for a while. So, here is one angle of personal mythology (PM) that has me puzzled.

Beginner’s guide to Japan”, By Pico Iyer- Pg. 101:  Here Iyer quotes Joe Campbell and leads the readers into a unique Japanese trait, pointing to the lack of “I”, “Me”, “My”.  “For a Westerner Joe Campbell noted in Japan, meditation may awaken a sense of divinity within; for a Japanese, it’s more likely to inspire a sense of divinity inside a temple, a flower, a gnat.  The person sitting still doesn’t say “I’m awake”.  She says, “The world is illuminated! ”

Similarly, in some parts of the Indian subcontinent, the “I”, the “Me”, is totally secondary to the needs of the parents, and parents’ needs within their community.

Pico adds, Japan’s foundational novel, The Tale of Genji, is notoriously hard to translate, because proper names are sometimes hard to translate, avoided….As the scholar of Japan, Ivan Morris notes,  ‘the hard and fast rules we like to maintain between past present singular plural, male female — don’t apply.”   “Beginner’s guide to Japan”, By Pico Iyer- Pg. 104:

“In Japan, there are twenty ways of saying “I”…women are expected to refer to themselves in the third person, men not.” Pg. 104.

“My sense”  is that the personal myths of women growing up in Japan  have got to be on a different track than for women growing up in a Western culture.  Hampered?  psychologically blocked?  How different is their archetypal energy and their sense of individuation from their Western counterpart?

“In meditating, meditate on your own divinity. The goal of life is to be a vehicle for something higher. Keep your eyes up there between the world of opposites watching your ‘play’ in the world. Let the world be as it is and learn to rock with the waves”
— Joseph Campbell
Joseph Campbell Companion, A (p. 189)
Find more quotations at www.jcf.org/quotes

Shaahayda