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Tagged: Oliver
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R³.
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August 12, 2020 at 1:56 pm #3741
Found this an interesting use of a Joseph Campbell quote.
Didn’t know he was a philosopher .
Thought he was a professor of literature.Ivanka Trump Commencement Speech Transcript for Class of 2020
Ivanka Trump: (08:20)
Joseph Campbell, a philosopher who also helped inspire the creation of Star Wars, once said, “The achievement of the hero is one that he is ready for, it’s really a manifestation of his character. The landscape and conditions of the environment match the readiness of the hero. The adventure that he is ready for is the one that he gets.” -
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August 13, 2020 at 5:27 pm #3749
Philosopher can accurately be applied to Joseph Campbell (it’s not a job title, but a description, like philanthropist or statesman). Most philosophers in recent centuries have had day jobs: Erasmus was a monk; Immanuel Kant taught physics and mathematics at the University of Königsberg; Nietzsche started off as a professor of philology at the University of Basel; Ayn Rand was a film extra, junior screenwriter, head of the costuming department at RKO, and novelist, etc.
(Of course, anyone with a Ph.D. is technically a “Doctor of Philosophy,” but Campbell dropped out of the doctoral program at Columbia; all he had was a Master’s Degree.)
Ivanka Trump’s citing Campbell toward the end of her commencement address drew a lot of attention to JCF on social media: a number of posters on various platforms were incensed and quite vocal with demands that the Foundation condemn her usage. All we could do is verify the accuracy of the quote (she doesn’t provide a source, so took a little while to track it down); after that, our hands were tied. Whatever one thinks of Ivanka Trump or her father politically, the quote was correct and did fit the context of her speech, which was relatively generic and uplifting, as commencement addresses tend to be. Had the same speech been delivered by, say, Reese Witherspoon, or Tom Hanks, there would have been no public controversy.
I can’t say whether or not Ivanka is familiar with Campbell’s work. She well may be, but seemed more like whoever wrote the speech was looking for a relevant quote to plug-in from a figure who might carry some weight with young people. Could just just be my projection, but if that truly were the case, Ivanka’s reference does signify how deep Campbell’s influence is in popular culture.
Stephen Gerringer
tie-dyed teller of tales -
August 13, 2020 at 7:24 pm #3752
Stephen; this is an excellent point you bring up; because so many people reference Joseph and don’t really know any of the backstory behind the phrases of his they are using. Themes like: “Follow your bliss” or the “Hero’s Journey”; for example have become everyday catch phrases but without knowledge of the context behind them and are often misunderstood; much less incorrectly applied. (Bliss) would be a prime example here. So much so that even Joseph at one point out of frustration stated: (I should have said: “Follow your blisters!”) Bliss does “not” mean: a “happy, happy frolic in the meadow”; in his words it meant: “following the push out of your own existence”; your highest enthusiasm yes!; but not some kind of self-absorbed excursion to shut out the world and be happy; but to find and live the deepest part of your potential. The (Hero) is the “You” that dares to step out beyond their boundaries and find that which moves and inspires them to become their best self; not what the herd says or that society or religion demands as a: “Thou Shalt system” way of living. It’s that which brings you rapture, joy, and meaning in the deeper experiences of what it means to be truly alive and following that.
And as you suggest; when one looks through history there are so many incredible examples; (a thousand faces of them and many more); that have brought: light, intelligence, and humanity into a world filled with darkness. Erasmus would certainly be one; many think of him as one of the key inspirers of the Renaissance; but he had many years of struggle during a period where if you said something that offended either the Church or ruler of any kind it could literally cost you your head. His book: “In Praise of Folly” was a little piece of dynamite that rocked that world because it’s message was tucked inside a short little piece of humor.
Michel de Montaigne’s: “Essay’s was another; his key phrase: “What Do I Know?” many have felt as an expression of the tone of that period where Art informed everything around you; and the word “enlightenment” served more as a vehicle of the spirit of the times than just conversation at some cocktail party. We say names like: Copernicus and Galileo; often without realizing what they went through to bring us their gifts when their ideas challenged the Church with it’s tiny idea of the universe; where Yahweh, Genesis, and Jesus informed their doctrines and anyone that challenged this was a Heretic subject to being burned at the stake. Joseph’s Hero was not a figment of one’s imagination; but often one born out of suffering and conflict; and this idea he did his best to convey as accessible to all.
(Robert sorry; after looking over my earlier suggestion it was not a very good idea so I took it down. Please disregard it!)
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August 14, 2020 at 3:22 am #3757
Stephen,
Yes. It was his lack of Ph.D. I was alluding to. -
August 14, 2020 at 12:42 pm #3763
James,
Yes
Not looking to incite a flame war.
Just found the quote and use interesting .I thoroughly enjoy Your insight.
Seems to me many of our real historic heroic figures fill the template structure of the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 ???…
No good deed …
There are always powers against disruption of the status quo and toppling carts , apple carts orange carts flower carts and others …
Should be lots of fun to see what happens when dead presidents are gone and cryptocurrency is the coin of the realm ???
We as a species wrest data information knowledge and wisdom from the unknown through toil trials tribulation sweat tears & hard work…
It is the beasts of burden that convey the spirit of humanity through spacetime …
Whether the labor is intellectual or physical all is a work of illumination mining in the niche mountain cave of human experience and existence … it is in this cave that we seek shelter from the Storm … it is from this cave that conditions and environments are born for future generations to flourish in Bloom achieve apotheosis … Through evolution life always finds a niche to exploit and capitalize on …
All hail
Life
L’chaim -
August 14, 2020 at 1:53 pm #3764
Robert; you always have interesting and helpful insights to share. No; that was my blind spot I was working through. I was offering a suggestion to what “I” thought would be helpful. You clearly have something you enjoy and that works for you; it’s not about my insight on something. We all have blind spots and after looking at it I realized what I did and took it out. That’s the thing about internal processes sometimes; we do stuff and then we see them hopefully and go oh no; and then take care of it. No my friend; that was on me; you have been nothing but helpful since you came on board; so please carry on! Thank you for your input on these new forums; we are trying to get them off the ground and you have been playing a big part in that.
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August 14, 2020 at 4:50 pm #3768
James,
I saw Oliver for the first time as a child at Radio City Music Hall . Quite an event . I remember identifying with Oliver as a child , empathizing . I suppose we all did that as children . Now that I am older it still doesn’t lose its magic. Though now through imposition of meaning and conscious eisegesis the Art takes on a multidimensional aspect that I was blind to as a child . So much Archetypical symbolism intended and unintended by the artist can be discerned and imposed . The magic is still there and so much more real for the contemplation .
Here is a YouTube clip of “Who Will Buy” from the movie Oliver
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August 14, 2020 at 8:09 pm #3770
Robert; this is a stunning example of Archetypal influence! Indeed many of these older pieces capture childhood fantasies that follow us throughout our lives; often inspiring us to aspirations beyond our day to day experiences of normal life. Books, paintings, music all serve this realm of the muses that inspire. Definitely potential “Hero” territory here I think for this is the place of childhood creative incubation where dreams are born; and one’s sense of possibility is first awakened. (It’s all over this particular piece within it’s magical display in every frame of footage.) I hope you’ll do more of these since this so beautifully expresses how archetypes can manifest themselves within certain pieces. Especially since archetypes so powerfully evoke these: “manifestations of character” the topic of Joseph’s quote specifies.
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August 14, 2020 at 8:52 pm #3771
James
Always lots of fun during this time of pandemic to contemplate what the Puer aeternus & Ravens Huginn (from Old Norse “thought”) and Muninn (Old Norse “memory” or “mind”) come tapping rapping , bring my way !!!
I am a product and child of my time place and experience imagined and real …
I am fully aware enjoy And am mindful of the biases they elicit …
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- 2. Respect Others’ Opinions These are conversations, not conversions. “Conversation” comes from the Latin words con (“with”) and verso (“opposite”). We expect diverse opinions to be expressed in these forums, and welcome them – but just because you disagree with what someone has to say doesn’t mean they don’t get to say it.
- 3. Come Clear of Mind In addition to expanding the mind, certain substances (alcohol, cocaine, marijuana, LSD, etc.) have been known to impair good judgment. We recommend you keep a journal while under the influence and then later make more rational determinations regarding what is appropriate to share in this forum.
- 4. Respect This Space The Joseph Campbell Foundation, a US not-for-profit organization, offers this forum as part of our mission of continuing Mr. Campbell’s work of increasing the level of public awareness and public discourse with regards to comparative mythology.
- 5. Avoid Contemporary Politics Given the volatile nature of contemporary political discourse, we ask that members steer clear of candidates or current political controversies. Forum members come from across the political spectrum. There are other fora across the internet for discussing myth and politics.
- 6. Be Polite Forum members come from many different sets of cultural assumptions, and many different parts of the world. Please refrain from language whose only purpose is offense. If it helps, imagine your grandmother reading forum posts – as perhaps she may, since other folks’ grandmothers are.
- 7. Refrain from Sexually Explicit Posts Please do not make sexually explicit posts within these forums, unless they are absolutely germane to the discussion underway – and even in that case, please try to warn readers at the top of your post. Not all members have the same threshold when it comes to taking offense to language and pictures. NOTE: Under no circumstances will we condone the posting of links to sites that include child pornography, even inadvertently. We will request that such links be removed immediately, and will remove them ourselves if compliance is not forthcoming. Any Associate knowingly posting such links will be suspended immediately; we will forward a snapshot of the offending page, the web address and the associate’s contact information to the appropriate criminal authorities
- 8. Refrain from Self-Promotion Announcements linking to your new blog post, book, workshop, video clip, etc., will be deleted, unless they are demonstrably part of the greater conversation. The only exception is the Share-Your-Work Gallery, a subforum within The Conversation with a Thousand Faces. If you have art, poetry, writing, or links to music and other work you would like to share, do so here.
- 9. Search First If you’re thinking of starting a new topic, asking a question, etc., please take advantage of the search functionality of this forum! You can find the search field above the list of forums on the main page of the forums. Also, consider searching on the greater JCF website – this site is full of amazing resources on a wide variety of topics, all just a search away.
- 10. Report Violations If you witness or experience behavior that you feel is contrary to the letter or spirit of these guidelines, please report it rather than attacking other members. Do this by choosing the Report button (next to “Reply”) at the top of the post, and select a reason from the dropdown menu (Spam, Advertising, Harassment, or Inappropriate Content). The moderation team will be notified. Depending on the degree of bad behavior, further posts might require approval, or the user could be blocked from posting and even banned.
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The Conversations of a Higher Order (COHO) consists of ten public forums loosely focused on a central theme. The forums are listed, with a brief description, on the COHO home page (each forum listed on that page also appears in the same order in the menu in the lefthand column – that menu stays with you as you move about the forums). This also shows who created the last post in each forum, and when.
When you visit a specific forum you will see the list of topics people have posted so far in that forum. Click on one to read that post and any replies. Feel free to add a reply if you have something to share, or just enjoy following the conversation. You can return to the COHO home page by clicking the "Home>Forums" breadcrumb at the top of the page – or move directly to a different forum by clicking on one of the listings from the forum menu in the lefthand column of the page.
If there’s anything you want to introduce – a question, an observation, or anything related to Campbell, myth, or one of his many related interests – create a topic in the forum you feel comes closest to including the subject you want to discuss. Most forums include in their description a link to a corresponding part of the website. For example, The Work of Joseph Campbell description has a link to all his published works: you can of course focus on a specific book or lecture, but also any topic related to the ideas arising out of his work is welcome in that forum.
When posting a new topic or a reply to an existing conversation, check the “Notify me of follow-up replies via email” box (conversations unfold at a leisurely pace: someone might need a few days to let what you write simmer in the back of their brain – this is how you find out someone has replied), and then click Submit. You can also click "Favorite" (top of the page on the right when reading forum threads) to be notified of all responses in a discussion.
Click on the Profile link under your user name in the upper left corner above the forum menu. Then select Edit and follow the prompts to upload an image file from your computer.
When you finish your post, before clicking the Submit button check the box at the bottom of your post that reads, “Notify me of follow-up replies via email.” You can also click on “Subscribe” (in the upper right corner of a thread) to follow the complete conversation (often a comment on someone else’s post might inspire a response from you).
We ask that when linking to web pages, please avoid posting the raw URL address in your text. Highlight the relevant text you'd like to link in your post, then select the link icon in your formatting bar above your post (immediately to the left of the picture icon, this looks like a diagonal paperclip). This opens a small field:
Paste the URL of the page you are linking to into the field provided. Then click on the gear icon to the right of that field, and check the box that says “Open link in a new tab” (so readers can see your link without having to navigate back to the forums), before clicking the green “Add Link” button.
To add an image to your post, click on the image icon in the menu at the top of your post (it's the icon on the far right):
In the Source field of the pop-up form, click on the camera icon on the far right. This should give you access to the files on your PC / laptop, or the photo library on your mobile device. Select the image, and add a brief description (e.g., "Minoan Goddess") in the appropriate field.
In the dimensions field, you only need enter the first number (240 is a good size for starters; if too small click the edit icon and increase that number). Then select OK.
Click on the name of the person you want to contact (under their avatar in a any of their posts). This link will take you to that member’s profile page. Then click on “Send a Message,” and compose.
If you witness or experience behavior that you feel is contrary to the letter or spirit of these guidelines, please report it rather than attacking other members. Do this by choosing the Report button (next to “Reply”) at the top of the post, and select a reason from the dropdown menu (Spam, Advertising, Harassment, or Inappropriate Content). The moderation team will be notified. Depending on the degree of bad behavior, further posts might require approval, or the user could be blocked from posting and even banned.
Visit the Contact the Foundation page, select Community and Social Media, and fill out the contact form.