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Stephen; my apologies for taking so long to get back on this; I just ordered the books you recommended. (This will add to the ever-growing stack I keep getting further and further behind on of course); but it’s the journey that’s important! The refinement of the process as we move ahead in our never-ending journey I see as an archetype of the “Seeker”. I’ve been saving this to share because when I saw it I immediately thought of Campbell’s Quest motif and how the decades and the boomer generation both you and I share is deeply related to this piece.
I had one of these spiritual adventures the below refers to that lasted several years; at one point in my early adult life I made to leap of faith and went to San Francisco; thumbed across country several times; (the name Route 66 – “The Mother Road” it’s often; and called reminds me of my quest and I followed this particular fellow for a time before I chose my own path. His name was “Stephen Gaskin” and he passed awhile back. He was an incredibly inspiring person and definitely left this world a better place for his being here; but his teachings were not for everyone. Here is what he taught; the Bio on him is linked on his name:
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Back to the topic; money often gets in the way; and as Joseph points out although you have to make money to live it has nothing to do with what you are “seeking” as this piece illustrates.
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The Hippie Trail of the 1960’s – The Call to Adventure and Enlightenment and it’s Roots
(From Yahoo’s News Feed): “The Telegraph”
“How the hippies’ Seventies search for enlightenment turned sour”
Mick Brown
Sat, January 2, 2021, 8:18 AM CSTIn 1961, the American beat poet Allen Ginsberg, along with his partner Peter Orlovsky, set off for India in search of enlightenment. Travelling to Paris, then Tangier, Israel, and Kenya, they finally set foot in Bombay – Ginsberg having prepared for his arrival by smoking grass scored from a shoeshine boy in Mombasa, and reading A Passage to India, the Ramayana, and Rudyard Kipling’s Kim.
From Bombay, the pair set off on a tour of India’s sacred sites: Risikesh, the burning ghats of Varanasi, and Haridwar for the Kumbh Mela festival, the largest human gathering on Earth, where millions of pilgrims go to immerse themselves in the Ganges.
Ginsberg wrote wonderingly to his friend Jack Kerouac, describing how things that would be considered outrageous or strange in uptight, authoritarian America were quite normal in India.
Nobody batted an eyelid at someone walking around the streets in their underwear, or even appeared to notice when a naked sadhu, dusted in ashes from the cremation grounds, and carrying a trident, passed by. Sadhus were to be found smoking hashish in every temple. “It really is another dimension of time history here.”
Ginsberg may not have been the first person to set foot on the hippie trail, but he was certainly one of the first. And his “Oh wow!” vision of India and the exotic East would be a template for what was to come.
Where the antic cheerleader and Pied Piper of hippiedom trod, thousands would shortly follow – by bus, train, coach, and dilapidated VW van. A disillusionment with Western materialism, the new freedoms of drugs and sexuality, and a growing rejection of conventional mores and values would all lead to a “turning to the East”, a symptom of the evolution of “the new consciousness”.The pilgrimage in 1968 by the Beatles to sit at the feet of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi at his ashram in Rishikesh proved a yet more potent and intoxicating advertisement for the mythical “East”. By the early Seventies, the numbers of travellers on the hippie trail had swollen from a stream to a deluge. It was these travellers who would be the prey of the serial killer Charles Sobhraj, who over a period of three years in the mid-Seventies is believed to have murdered more than a dozen young Westerners in Thailand, India and Nepal, and whose story is told in the new BBC One series, The Serpent.
The hippies were not the first Westerners to travel East in search of enlightenment. The English writer Paul Brunton, arguably the first spiritual tourist, travelled through India encountering swamis and holy men, publishing an account of his experiences,A Search In Secret India, in 1934.
Somerset Maugham made his own genteel pilgrimage around the holy sites of India in 1938, finally arriving at the ashram of the great sage Ramana Maharshi. (Arriving there, Maugham fainted, prompting a wave of excited speculation throughout India that the Maharishi had caused the great Englishman to be “rapt for a while in the infinite”. Maugham was obliged to explain he had been subject to fainting fits all his life and that if he had been in “the infinite” it was a complete blank.)
His experiences in India inspired Maugham to write The Razor’s Edge, about a young man, Larry Darrell, disenchanted with materialism and ambition who sets off in search of a guru. Darrell might be seen as a prototypical hippie – although the term had yet to be invented – but The Razor’s Edge was never a book much read on the hippie trail.Stiff-necked, fabulously wealthy, and in so many ways a product of Edwardian England, Maugham was highly improbable material for a cult hero. Much more likely were the novels of Herman Hesse, The Tibetan Book of the Dead and Timothy Leary’s hymn to LSD, The Politics of Ecstasy.
The hippie trail wound across Europe, through Istanbul, on to Tehran, Kabul in Afghanistan, through the Khyber Pass to Peshawar and Lahore in Pakistan, and then on to Kashmir, India and Nepal.
It was no coincidence that the route led through the principal hash-producing regions of the world – Afghanistan, Chitral in northern Pakistan, Kashmir, the Kullu valley in India, and Nepal.In this sense, the hippie trail can be seen as a sort of drug-addled version of the Grand Tour of the 17th and 18th centuries, when members of the aristocracy and the upper classes would journey through the cultural capitals of Europe in search of artistic enlightenment.
On the hippie trail the search was less for an appreciation of Renaissance art than for adventure and enlightenment of a spiritual kind: Paris, Florence and Rome supplanted by the ruined temple complexes of Hampi; Dharamsala to see the Dalai Lama; Bangalore and the ashram of the miracle-working swami Sai Baba, and the beaches of Goa.
There were particular pilgrims’ rests: The Pudding Shop in Istanbul for nourishment, the swapping of information about cheap hotels, dangerous roads and the availability of a ride. The cockroach-infested Sigi’s hotel on Chicken Street in Kabul (actually, most hotels on the hippie trail were cockroach-infested).In Kathmandu (where Sobhraj was arrested in 2003 in the five-star Yak and Yeti hotel), there was “Freak Street” and the Blue Tibetan café, where in 1967 Richard Alpert, an associate of Timothy Leary, in search of a more lasting high than acid, was approached by a Westerner with shoulder-length hair and dressed only in a dhoti.
This was Kermit Michael Riggs, a 6ft 4in blond surfer from Laguna Beach, California who had followed the hippie trail to India in 1964, taken the name Bhagavan Das and was living the life of a sadhu. Alpert was bowled over. After five days in Alpert’s hotel room, eating peach melbas and getting high on hash and mescaline, Bhagavan Das took Alpert on a prolonged tour of spiritual sites, eventually leading him to a remote mountaintop ashram, where he was introduced to a little man in his 60s wrapped in a blanket named Neem Karoli Baba. Alpert became Baba’s disciple, changed his name to Ram Dass, and returning to America wrote a book about his transformation, Be Here Now – which went on to sell more than a million copies, and find its way into countless rucksacks on the hippie trail.Bhagavan Das was by no means unique; dozens of Westerners adopted the sadhu life and simply never went home. (At the Kumbh Mela festival in Haridwar some 30 years ago I encountered a half-naked middle-aged sadhu from Kettering.)
Ginsberg spent more than a year in India but never gained the spiritual realisation he sought. “I wanted to be a saint,” he wrote in his Indian Journals. “But suffer for what? Illusions?” Many on the hippie trail would come to feel the same way. Illness, poverty, exhaustion, a lack of Western comforts – a cold water shower of reality and a sense that the party was over, would lead most back home.
The Iranian Revolution in 1978 and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan a year later would effectively seal the hippie trail for good.You could say that in a sense the trail was reopened 30 years later, renamed as “the gap year”, with full moon parties on the beaches of Goa and bungee-jumping in Nepal, all financed by the bank of mum and dad – and with the added security of a bargain flight home. But where’s the adventure in that?
Hello everyone; sorry I’ve been absent for so long and these have been absolutely terrific responses to this topic. My holiday approach this year was to try and just listen to whatever came past my radar that informed me from my Christmas past experiences and sure enough several made themselves apparent changing my perspective in a very meaningful way.
(First off welcome to the forums Andreas; sorry it’s taken me awhile to respond. It seems you are already engaged and I definitely am looking forward to the new times ahead with you; your presence here is definitely appreciated!)
Now as to this topic; the first thing I noticed during the holidays was there were little hints or clues that would just present themselves as I would be going about my normal routines and everything would just stop. What I mean by that is the theme of “transformation”; (which I think is one of the main messages of this holiday season); would appear in some form like a movie or interaction of some kind. One of these for example was the movie: “A Christmas Carol” by Charles Dickens was playing in the background while I was doing something and towards the end Ebenezer Scrooge was confronted by a vision of his mortality and the possibility of a life unlived where he sees his grave and no one cared whether he had lived or died; and he becomes totally transformed.
But the one that really got my attention was this little clip of: “It’s A Wonderful Life” that Jimmy Stewart describes to Johnny Carson of why it became one of the most iconic Christmas masterpieces ever made! This message of love and friendship are the inward values that make life worth living I found were reflected by several different moments throughout the coming days when out of nowhere old friends of mine would reach out to me to let me know about something they had seen and share it; or wanted to see how I was! It was tremendously moving and reminded me that amid the surface display of everyday living the importance of the invisible life that supports the visible one that often goes unnoticed; and that this is one of the main messages of the holiday season we can experience each year if we are open to it.
This holiday first posting I think has been a great success and I hope will become a tradition like the one that Michael first put together back on the older version of CoaHO.
Hey everyone; it’s been awhile since I’ve posted on this thread but I wanted to include a short clip on Dennis Patrick Slattery’s book that may line up with what is currently being discussed concerning the process of writing one’s personal myth. For me Diane Osbon’s book: “Reflections on the Art of Living – A Joseph Campbell Companion”; has been crucial in my journey for it was written in 1991; but: “Riting Myth Mythic Writing”; was written in 2012; and deals more with the actual writing process of one’s myth than the other which for me deals more with understanding how to incorporate “Joseph’s themes” into one’s life.
I’ve been spending some time on Slattery’s website listed earlier; which has quite a bit of material concerning his own process including some fascinating posts on his Painting and Pottery; (one of which has some pieces on Carl Jung’s: “Red Book”. I bring this up because although writing is still the main focus of this thread; Marianne’s quote earlier about incorporating “all” the arts lies at the heart and soul of the inner: “sacred space”; which Joseph felt was critical for human well being in modern life. You could say hobby or craft is one aspect; and indeed Jung’s process of: “Play” is one of the avenues this inner expression begins to take place. But Slattery approaches this idea in a very unique way which the clip talks about:
Dr. Gardner,
First of all a warm welcome and I also would like to echo my appreciation of your beautifully written and very thoughtful piece. The first part was for me particularly moving as it spoke to an experience we all have in common; (that of losing someone close); and the poignant way you expressed your grief spoke to this in a very powerful way. This experience of life’s emotional connection and fragility touches us all at some point; and the way it changes our world can often go far beyond the ability of words to describe it. As one of life’s major constants this affect of loss is far too often not as fully appreciated or comprehended as to the power of it’s ability to define as well as color our view of life as we move through it’s various stages toward our own exit. But moments such as these can also add depth as well as understanding to a larger context in which we play our part; but then we are not usually aware of our own process as we live out our lives either. How many books and poems have been written about this subject is not the point I got from this piece; but the shared humanity was; for it reminded me of the gateway, portal, or threshold moments where one’s life is forever changed. I would say that most people have had some encounter with this experience; and more than likely this experience was profound; for how often have we heard the expression: “and my world just stopped”! (Yes; a “still-point moment” to be sure!)Our lives all contain individual mixtures of: trajectory, chance, and destiny of which we may or may not be aware. And what these elements have to do with how we interpret the meaning in how our lives are constructed (also) includes life’s “mystery”; which can blindside us with death’s entrance and we are left devastated and bewildered by our loss and inability to grapple with the profoundness of it’s enormity. To consider the nature of existence includes the realization of death as it’s final act of definition; whether symbolized by the: “Ouroboros”; or ritualized within the world’s great mythic traditions. And to understand the nature of the cosmos as Joseph suggests is to accept the realization that: “life has no meaning”; we bring the meaning to it; (being alive is the meaning); and this “is-ness” in which we are enclosed as he also suggests includes: “we participate in a wonder”; but this realization is also enveloped within a nightmare landscape of: “life eating life”; in which we all: (as best we can); try to engage and contribute with joyful compassion in it’s suffering as we try to find our way.
To look at the stars and the universe which frames them is to consider something so overwhelming we are left only with our own humble ability to make sense out of something for which there is no meaning or explanation; yet here we are in a little ship on an ocean without a rudder looking for a North Star to guide us; but that star is “our star” that will point us in the right direction for our lives if we but listen to the human heart; the only thing that has properly guided mankind throughout the ages of his existence.
I really enjoyed your terrific piece and thought about it most of the day. Although my offering is not what I would call formal what moved me the most was the personal aspect; which reminded me of: Dorthey and her companions in the “Wizard of Oz”; each had their gifts to bestow; but it was Dorthey’s steadfast devotion to her quest that in the end took her home.
Stephen; I think you articulated this aspect of what I would call mimicking or parroting Joseph’s thoughts and ideas really well. And I would be surprised if most people who hold his insights up as something to emulate didn’t at some time or another find themselves suspect in some way to falling under this spell. Speaking for myself this definitely would be true since I consider him in many ways a kind of mentor even though I never met him. But saying that I think this only natural since any culture pushes us as human beings in some kind of direction; whether we are aware of it or not; (especially concerning things like peer pressure).
But more and more I keep finding myself questioning: “is what I’m saying and thinking a reflection of what I truly think and feel; or are these things echo’s from Joseph’s influence?”; and if I’m honest I would have to say in many ways they absolutely are! But as I’m coming to realize more and more I think it was Joseph’s intent to use the things he shared as more of a roadmap to developing my own point of view; my own voice; my own way of experiencing and looking at the world through the context of my own life experiences.
Eastern and Western cultures are very different; but the world is rapidly changing in many ways – while at the same time people are trying to hold on to many of the timeless values born out of the perceptions that produced them. We can say: “there is nothing new under the sun”; but within this new: “freefall into the future”; mankind is experiencing the cross-pollination of cultures in ways I think are going to affect the ways we experience the world and our lives within it in ways we can’t yet know. The computer and the internet; the human genome; going to the moon and then on to inter-steller space; the coming of climate change and global warming; and now this global virus pandemic are all examples to consider.
Disagreeing with Joseph is a difficult question for me since I have been so influenced by his ideas; (especially concerning with the unlocking of Carl Jung’s ideas as applied to my own life which is now forever changed); but I don’t want to digress. Below is a quote of mine from the mentoring thread which might better describe my feelings about this; some of which was borrowed from a conversation Joseph had with Michael Toms in: “An Open Life” on page 123.
___________________________________________________Joseph:
If I do have a guru of that sort, it would be Zimmer–the one who really gave me the courage to interpret myths out of what I knew of their common symbols. There’s always a risk there, but it’s the risk of your own personal adventure instead of gluing yourself to what someone else has found.”
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Me:
To me this is a central feature that should be held up as something to strive for; the ability to not only follow your own unique individual path; but to use your own point of view as a guide. Something that speaks to you out of your own center in your own voice; something that gives you a sense you are following your own: “North Star” as your guide. We all need models and the mentor I think helps the individual to find and develop their own idea of possibility of their own: “reason for being”.; or put another way: their own: “personal myth”. I think this is Joseph’s main theme around which many of the other aspects or dimensions constellate. (The hero is a major archetype that resonates in everyone; and Joseph stated this another way from the ancients: “It is in you, go and find it”.)
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I don’t know if the above adequately addresses or applies to the overall themes in this thread of disagreeing with Joseph or not; (perhaps a mixture of light and dark with shades of grey mixed in). But at this stage of my life I don’t think I could easily separate where one ends and the other begins. I currently just started reading a new book Stephen recommended on another thread: Dennis Patrick Slaattery’s: “Riting Myth Mythic Writing”; which may help provide some clues concerning my personal myth and my own voice as separate from Joe’s influence. Anyway; I thought this might add something concerning Stephen’s above post since we all have Joseph’s influence in common; but we might view his ideas in completely ways through very different cultural lenses. Hopefully this humble addition will contribute something to Nandu’s topic.
Stephen: I really like the way you framed this; (especially the last paragraph); since I think much of our lives can revolve around coming to this realization path of an individual destiny and life course. And the process involved with an individual experience of this can take many forms; especially concerning the life momentum out of which they have come.
(Stephen): “This does ring true. Archetypal energies will not be ignored. In the absence of a society that has space and place where such energy is observed and honored, what form might this dynamic then take? (I think of some mighty strange helpers and guides who have emerged the past couple years, initiating many, including a few of my friends and relatives, into strange shadowy worlds.)
How, then, do we properly honor this archetype? What I take away from John’s essay is that we do so not just through being mentored, but when we step up to the plate, actively acknowledging, embracing, and giving life to the Mentor born of our own experience and life wisdom.”
_______________________________________________________________________________I think the part: “born of our own experience and life wisdom” speaks to what the mentor is trying to transfer to the individual. A sense of: not only developing self-responsibility for their own life; but that they have the possibility of creating their own model for finding and fulfilling their own destiny; and if the situation presents itself of passing that (received) self-knowledge on. Joseph talks about this very subject concerning life models in society on pages 109-110; in Michael Tom’s: “An Open Life:
Joseph:
“The hero-as-model is one thing we lack, so each one has to be his own hero and follow the path that’s no path. It’s a very interesting situation.”Toms:
“Or at least the models we tend to use are very strange ones. I think of Hollywood stars…”Joseph:
“Oh, now those models come flashing in front of us and they are heros of sorts. I think of the athletic hero is right there. But these are bizarre kinds of heros because they can’t really be incorporated into one’s life. Actors, personalities, politicians–they’re mostly heros in life contexts that are not of the people who admire them. That’s just a curious result of the fact that our society’s changing so fast. But I think they are heros–there’s just no doubt about it. I think Martin Luther King was a hero. Kennedy was a hero–both Kennedy’s. And certain athletes.”Toms:
“They filled the model.”Joseph:
“They filled the model. But they’re not doing much for us in the way of helping us build our own lives. There are very few models for life. I think the individual has to find his own model. I found mine.”Toms:
“Isn’t it important to respect our own uniqueness?”Joseph:
“I think that’s the most important of all. That’s why, as I said, you can’t really follow a guru. You can’t ask somebody to give The Reason, but you can find one for yourself; you decide what the meaning of your life is to be. People talk about the meaning of life–there are lots of meanings of different lives, and you must decide what you want your own to be.”___________________________________________________________________________
Joseph talks about something on page 123; I think is extremely important concerning Jung’s ideas and developing his own independent way of interpreting something:
Joseph:
“You know for some people, “Jungian” is a nasty word, and it has been flung at me by certain reviewers as though to say, “Don’t bother with Joe Campbell; he’s a Jungian.” I’m not a Jungian! As far as interpreting myths Jung gives me the best clues I’ve got. But I’m much more interested in diffusion and relationships historically than Jung was, so that the Jungians think of me as kind of a questionable person. I don’t use those formula words very often in my interpretation of myths, but Jung gives me the background from which to let the myth talk to me.If I do have a guru of that sort, it would be Zimmer–the one who really gave me the courage to interpret myths out of what I knew of their common symbols. There’s always a risk there, but it’s the risk of your own personal adventure instead of gluing yourself to what someone else has found.”
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To me this is a central feature that should be held up as something to strive for; the ability to not only follow your own unique individual path; but to use your own point of view as a guide. Something that speaks to you out of your own center in your own voice; something that gives you a sense you are following your own: “North Star” as your guide. We all need models and the mentor I think helps the individual to find and develop their own idea of possibility of their own: “reason for being”.; or put another way: their own: “personal myth”. I think this is Joseph’s main theme around which many of the other aspects or dimensions constellate. (The hero is a major archetype that resonates in everyone; and Joseph stated this another way from the ancients: “It is in you, go and find it”.)
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One little addendum I just remembered that might be worth mentioning. As I was thinking about what I was going to post there was a movie playing in the background. As I turned around to see what it was I realized it was a new takeoff version of the classic: Don Quixote that had Adam Driver as Sancho Panza set in modern times; with a very different twist on the plot which would be very difficult to describe. But my point in bringing this up has to do with the emotional power this story conveys concerning this “crazy” old man that thinks he is a knight errand with his noble squire setting out to right wrongs by fighting villains and charging at windmills to rescue his lady fair – Dulcinea; (and what the hero and his adventure symbolizes toward modern life). For those unfamiliar with this story it transfers a deeply poignant understanding of life and the importance of the hero which struck me immediately as relevant to this topic. The hero as a model or an archetype in this story brings a sense of meaning towards many of the things worth living for in a way that has served as a model for centuries. This book use to be one of “the” most read on the planet next to the Bible years ago; but with today’s social media I am not so sure that would still be the case. At any rate I thought it relevant to this topic even though the context might seem a bit far fetched.
________________________________________________________________________________(Thank you for your kind thoughts; there have been so many great points brought up in this discussion I’ll try to stop by and contribute something more later on.)
Mars; if I understand what you are saying we may have to agree to disagree on some of this; but my thoughts are still a work-in-progress so I appreciate your thoughtful perspective. The (editor) is a metaphor for a particular function that is being served within the individual; and as I mentioned earlier I’m not quite satisfied with my conclusions and I certainly do not claim to be an authority on this; but these are my impressions so far and of course I’m open up for more “clarity” concerning (Joseph’s) particular theme if you have it to offer.
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I want to add an addendum to Stephen’s opening question about what may be informing our blind spot; (which to me seems to refer to the Jungian: “personal unconscious”. I may be off track but I also think this (editor) might have a connection to the “collective unconscious” as well.
From Daryl Sharp’s Lexicon:
“Personal unconscious. The personal layer of the unconscious, distinct from the collective unconscious.
The personal unconscious contains lost memories, painful ideas that are repressed (i.e., forgotten on purpose), subliminal perceptions, by which are meant sense-perceptions that were not strong enough to reach consciousness, and finally, contents that are not yet ripe for consciousness.[The Personal and the Collective Unconscious,” ibid., par. 103.]”(and concerning the relationship to the: “collective unconscious” also taken from the Lexicon):
“The collective unconscious-so far as we can say anything about it at all-appears to consist of mythological motifs or primordial images, for which reason the myths of all nations are its real exponents. In fact, the whole of mythology could be taken as a sort of projection of the collective unconscious. . . . We can therefore study the collective unconscious in two ways, either in mythology or in the analysis of the individual.[“The Structure of the Psyche,” CW 8, par. 325.]
The more one becomes aware of the contents of the personal unconscious, the more is revealed of the rich layer of images and motifs that comprise the collective unconscious. This has the effect of enlarging the personality.
In this way there arises a consciousness which is no longer imprisoned in the petty, oversensitive, personal world of the ego, but participates freely in the wider world of objective interests. This widened consciousness is no longer that touchy, egotistical bundle of personal wishes, fears, hopes, and ambitions which always has to be compensated or corrected by unconscious counter-tendencies; instead, it is a function of relationship to the world of objects, bringing the individual into absolute, binding, and indissoluble communion with the world at large.[The Function of the Unconscious,” CW 7, par. 275.]
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I’m not completely satisfied with all of this yet; but it seems to me to suggest that much of what we don’t know about how we as individual’s perceive our world around us and our reactions to things may be pointing in this direction concerning our blind spot and how we react to things. “Emotion” of course takes this subject to whole other level; (especially where the Shadow is concerned because much of this processing has to with repressed psychic content and what stimulates it as well. And our editor is right in the middle of this processing of material by filtering data and helping in the decision making by assigning meaning it.
Mary; a quick thank you response to you, Shaheda, and John’s kind references to my earlier offerings. (My computer connection may sabotage me before I finish so I’ll attempt to describe some of my recent thoughts about these “awesome” posts this week. It’s been a real privilege to join in so I’ll try to add something worthy that compliments them.
More and more I keep coming back to the role archetypes play in the different influences the mentor makes in it’s appearance in our lives whether as teacher or mythical advisor. Whether as the (S)elf as the main regulating center of the entire psyche in it’s journey towards wholeness; or as the “ego/self/hero” as the “I” that we perceive with that interplays with: the shadow, persona, anima/animus systems; I think the mentor wears various costumes in influencing our lives. The “wounded-child or wounded-healer”; the Merlin/Crone advisor; the young male as Arthur seeking forth as self/initiator or maiden as young mother or Joan of Arc all represent various characters as vehicles of transformation to the individual lost in the woods with no direction of where to go. The mentor or teacher appears whether: as Obi Wan or Yoda or Gandalf or whatever other figure this form takes as a guide dispensing wisdom of the individual’s inner power they have not yet discovered. Joseph referred to what they may give us as not only a skill but more importantly a: “psychological center” and may also provide a inner commitment course to follow to come to this self-realization.
I also think there are different life stages these archetypes can make their appearance depending on what type of psychological crisis may be occurring; and the “thresholds” that must be crossed for achievement to take place. And whether there is a boon or a transformation to be brought back from the battle with the unconsciousness that must be addressed these mythical figures help to provide the necessary inner tools; (often in the form of some sort of symbol); that will help them in their heroic journey. Joseph talks about some of these forms such as: apotheosis, atonement, the sacred marriage, and the flight of the Promethean fire theft in his discussions with Bill Moyers in: “The Power of Myth” as these are motifs where many of these psychological transformations present themselves.
(One such story with the symbol as tool is the Navajo”: When the two came to their Father”; where a (feather); as a psychological device; is provided as something to hold on to so they won’t (crack-up) on their adventure. This is not the same as the sword; “Excalibur” lodged in the stone which young Arthur must pull out; so these devices and their application may vary. Two of my very favorites of this psychological transformation are Robin Williams’ roles; one as the mental health therapist; Sean Maguire; in: “Good Will Hunting”; and the other as high school English Teacher: John Keating in: “Dead Poet’s Society”. These are definitely mentors worthy of the term for what they exemplify in providing knowledge of these inner terrains that must be traveled; although for different reasons. One for inner healing; and one for the transformation of youth into adulthood.
But to me the chief questions that must be asked are:
“What do these figures and devices symbolize in relation to the individual’s unique quest; what is the mission? What does this adventure or journey symbolize where this figure is conjured forth whether by circumstance or from the unconscious?” (Whether as a real personal relationship; or as a symbolic realization what does this figure or crisis situation represent; what is it’s message?; (And we all need mentors whether we know it or not).
(Okay; so this seemed to work regarding my internet connection and I got it all in. I did a “system restore”; so maybe everything is back to normal; lol). This discussion has been a real thought provoking treat to participate in; so please keep it up!
Stephen; your deep background in Joseph’s work “shines” here and articulates in a much better and more concise way what my feeble version was attempting to convey. Again; my frustrations with my internet connect have probably conjured up some ancient; “God of yore” wanting to have a little fun; so your insights provided a much better job at clarity. (Joseph referred to his computer when talking with Moyers as resembling Yahweh with a lot of rules and no mercy; so perhaps my weakness in this area of knowledge provoked his trickster “humor”; lol) At any rate as you point out; Nandu’s pioneering spirit indeed deserves appreciation for this is often an area where few attempt to venture. Hope my effort did something at promoting interest!
Nandu; my apologies for not being able to finish my post explanations for I’ve been having internet connection problems all week. (I’ll try this again.)
Joseph had no problems with the connection of science to spirituality; at least as I understood him. He saw science as a physical manifestation of what the spiritual was referring to; and that there is no ultimate meaning to existence; but that we provide the context to which these spiritual constructs are referring. The flower of the Buddha’s sermon is a symbol of “isness”; and the idea of “faith” in religion is a concretized interpretation of something that “experience as knowledge” replaces. Science and transcendence are part of the same package. “You” are the God and the creator of your own life; and these symbolic references represent realizations or constructs of consciousness that you are to experience; duality juxtaposes opposites such as God and the Devil; against each other as thresholds to be crossed as working through the various crisis situations you experience. Compassion as opposed to hatred of the other person are actually the war within you that is taking place. That other person is actually “you” as seen from the other side metaphorically. And these levels of consciousness we all must go through refer to these varying points of view within these different spiritual “thou shalt” systems. Some use symbols; some go past them; some exclude them all together. At least this is the way I understood Joseph’s interpretations. This may or may not line up with your thoughts on these ideas. (This took me about 5 attempts to post so it will have to be the best I can do for the moment.) Namaste; my friend.
Here is one more that touches on the same sorts of themes of the way we interpret consciousness as categories of thought; and the way we think about our existence as related to them. The East and West; or some may say: “occident vs orient”; varies widely as he points out about the notion of the “individual vs the collective society”; and have much to do with how these symbols and signs he talks about are interpreted:
Nandu; I don’t know if this clip connects with any of your thoughts about Joseph’s ideas or not; but if nothing else it may be food for thought.
I want to add one last thing about this editorial aspect that may or may not be relative to what we are addressing. For me a lot of what Joseph talks about is concerning our inner landscape and how we interpret it. So much of our lives he suggests from what he found about myth is that many of these experiences we have are constant themes that seem to repeat themselves throughout human history and our inner editor helps us to deal with them. And whether it be through religion or story or motif we are seeking to know who we are and to bring that thing to either fruition, assimilation, or resolution.
I think in many ways our dreams speak to us in a language of symbols and images that remind us this process is what is taking place within our inner life only we are not aware of it; and Joseph’s work recounts this in many ways such as through the historical motifs and patterns he found from a lifetime of studying the worlds mythologies. From the paintings in ancient caves to the texts of the many religions to the incredible art they have left behind so much of this material speaks to this realization of the transformative of the transcendent elements and aspects that may be at work in our lives if only we can see it and become aware of it. And this editor aspect of this 5th function is addressing much of that. Carl Jung said that we as human beings are in a constant state of becoming whether awake or asleep; and these issues and dynamics are constantly at work informing our lives.
I remember Joseph using a metaphor once concerning the psyche and our unconscious and how our conscious awareness is like the captain that steers his craft across the sea and we are doing our best to navigate this great ocean of life we are riding on. At least this is what this editorial function seems to be serving to me.
Wow Mars; such a beautiful articulation concerning much of what I was attempting to describe! To me Joseph’s insights reveal that much of man’s mythological realizations have to do with how they are read or interpreted; they have for whatever reason become concretized or personalized as factual instead of metaphorical; that they are referring to the deep spiritual mysteries and powers that lie within us.
On more than one occasion he pointed out that many of these historical mythologies will work just fine if read another way; (for instance concerning Christianity); he suggests: if read metaphorically this represents a spiritual transformation within you; not something up in heaven or that there is an old man with a not so pleasant disposition telling you what to do because the devil will torment you in hell. No; it’s about the awakened compassion of the heart-life within you; suffering with others as if their pain is your own: “participation with joy in the sufferings of the world; finding within you the rapture of being truly alive; finding your bliss; your greatest joy and following that; not acquiescing to the guilt and shame of some: “thou shalt” system.
One of the things Joseph mentions is thinking of this brief moment of existence we are given as: “participating in a wonder”; but that wonder as Joyce says is also a nightmare from which we are trying to awake; and the way to do that is to participate in the game of life. You play your part in this Grand Opera joyfully and willingly even though you realize it’s going to hurt; (sometimes deeply); and the final end of this great play is death. Religion should point toward a metaphoric way of living; not a command by some imaginary deity with a book of rules that says you are unworthy unless you follow them. These should be interpreted as spiritual insights, not something that demeans science unless it agrees with you. This planet is being torn apart by what Joseph called: “sanctified misunderstanding”.
So here is where this: “little editor” comes in; it’s a discriminating factor within the individual that one uses to distinguish what these finer nuances are that may be directing us without us knowing it. (Click here for an example of that discriminating factor we are discussing where Joseph talks about the difference between a “sign and a symbol” as relates to this 5th editorial function; or “little editor” we all have.) Jung is in there as well as so many of the great spiritual masters who left behind deep insights of these great mysteries that have come down to us through the ages; and this realization we are talking about absolutely includes “Science” as well. Joseph mentions these insights as something we build on and there is a new version each season.
My point was these new changes are accelerating so fast that man can hardy keep up; and Joseph refers to this new reality we now have to navigate as this: “free fall into the future”; and that many of these old myths have to be read in a new way; and that each individual is a free agent; not a slave. This idea of a “personal myth” is what he is referring to; it’s saying God is within you; and that “little editor” helps you to navigate this powerful mystery we are all riding on. In the DVD documentary about Joseph Campbell: “The Hero’s Journey”; there is a discussion section with a small group of people sitting on the floor where Joseph goes into great detail about this; (he doesn’t actually say “little editor”; but he is making this case quite seriously and provides examples that reveal these finer distinctions in a very accessible way.
At any rate; this was my feeble attempt at this description; and I thought you articulated some of these things really well. I would heartily recommend the DVD and the companion book as well because they continually help me in fleshing so many of his ideas where normally I would be just lost in the forest. My apologies for my earlier post attempts since I had to keep going back and rewriting them; and I’m still not quite satisfied with these results I’ve put down here; but that’s what having these discussions are all about; and Stephen has been doing such a tremendous job in getting these new Forums off the ground! (He or others may have some new things to add; so I’ll stop here.)
John; you are most kind in your thoughtful response. Hillman’s: “Daimon” from the Soul’s Code I like a lot. The Male Tigers in my life; although some longer than others in time spent; were important in their influence and presence. Each had their gifts they bestowed; as did the privilege of the Crones. The Senex as guide when I think of him now takes on a different form than as a young boy; the man must also think differently than just as a warrior-hero role for induction into life; for I was also introduced to a more gentle and thoughtful perspective; as someone like Atticus Finch as well as magicians and noble Knight Errands. The world changes even though there are constants to be patterned after; and one of the most important things I learned from Joseph’s ideas was that one’s own interpretation of life must be developed as well. “This is the left-hand path of the maverick way”; the one who must often go into the forest without counsel to find their own path. The modern world may borrow from the old; but the new has it’s own realities that must be incorporated as well.
I came to Joseph’s work later than many and the influence of them all; both male and female was rekindled. The life experience of those among us we often never know much about; and I’m constantly reminded after Joseph’s influence that what I see and experience from others is only a part of what may actually lay hidden from view. Their heartache and suffering as well as my own may mirror parts of something of which I may be only partly aware; and though my own blind spots may be in the way; it was Joseph’s connection to Jung that helped to open a doorway or a window into a much deeper understanding of myself and those around me. We grow up in a culture that provides only partial instruction for what life may hold; and our trajectory may lead us down many paths; but it’s mystery; as Joseph suggests; may intervene and cause unforeseen circumstances to dictate something else of which we have no idea.
Most of my own life I had to learn to be my own hero; but I did not know of Campbell’s existence. I had already found a life path but that is only part of the task to be completed; one must then incorporate and face whatever difficulties that may lie ahead by taking this journey into deeper realms as the Sun-Chariot crosses over one’s life meridian toward old age; and part of that life journey was only beginning. Life crisis situations can take many forms; some of mine included great loss; including losing the family house and taking on yet more tasks; and a revisit from other former crisis may sometimes be included as I was to find out more than once. This particular one involved losing one’s berings; which Joseph calls the: “long season”; where a rebuild is in order. I was completely lost and for two years tried every religion or change of perspective I could think of. As Joseph said about religion: “these paths can often lead nowhere”; and one day walking the several miles back home from a church which held nothing for me but a brick wall in deeply depressed reflection; upon reaching home turned on the television to find Joseph Campbell talking to Bill Moyers and my world just stopped; “who was this person that could speak in a voice where everything suddenly made sense?”; and from then on everything changed. That was 1988; and my life has never been the same.
One of the great joys has been sharing this new world with those who have the same love for his work; and it continues to transform my life ever since. So in another sense you could say Joseph has become a mentor to me. And others I suspect may feel the same way. There is something he talks about where the calamities in ones life may actually be the defining moments; but it is only after looking back in later life this realization becomes apparent. This was one of the most important moments of my understanding of where it all started; and like the realization of: (” the Marga” or animal path back to it’s den) Joseph mentions; what appeared on the outside was not the true reflection of what happened on the inside. Every day I am more and more grateful for discovering Joseph Campbell; for in my mind his mentorship has saved my life from where it had begun so very long ago; and this appreciation will stay with me till my journey’s end. Everyone has a journey they are on; thank you for your kind thoughts regarding mine.