Stephen, I think you bring up an important point that is often missed. So often the Hero is seen as an image, as opposed to a potential aspect of the individual’s character. In Jungian-speak this would the archetypal image, not the archetype itself. In other words, the Hero is an aspect of our true nature that if “awakened” can change us, the life we live, and the lives of others in significant ways.

The Hero as an image gets a lot of press; (especially if there is fame or notoriety involved). But my sense of it is the Hero is not a concretized pattern like a figure to be modeled after, but a dimension of the individual human spirit that is potential in everyone. Anyone has the potential to be a hero; and this is what speaks to us from the depths of our soul. That at any moment something can happened that can call forth from the depths of our experience our ability to rise to the call that beckons us forth if we answer it. It doesn’t have to be saving a child from a burning building but also someone fighting cancer. It is the potential dimension within us that tells us something just won’t do, and we must rise to the challenge of dealing with it.

If you lost your house, if you lost a loved one, if you lost your world can you create a new one from the ashes. Can you be Prometheus that steals the fire from the gods, can you be Jesus that has compassion for those suffering you see around you. Can you pick yourself up and go on when all seems lost from some catastrophe you have suffered? These are just a “tiny few” of the possibilities of the Hero that lies within all of us. Can we summon this aspect of ourselves forth is the question?

Joseph talked about many versions of the Hero and many different applications as well. But to me it has as much to do with the individual circumstances and how this concept is understood within one’s own life; but that’s certainly not the only aspect of the Hero character or what its’ application might be, but one I’ve heard most often in everyday life. (Stephen or anyone else may have more to add on this.)

Kristina, so wonderful to have you back. Your deep dive into aspects of our relationships; (social as well as personal); concerning the ritual of a party that everyone has been discussing leads me to a couple of questions that have deep resonance with me lately and I think may offer some added seasoning as we are exploring our inner world. The “Shadow” is one, Eros as related to our inner drive concerning the idea of fate/destiny and also its’ possible connection to the way we see ourselves as you mentioned concerning the understanding surrounding “therapy”, is two; and three is the curious one: “synchronicity” or things that pop up out of nowhere as if a message sent by “The God’s”; that either wreck-havoc or provide illumination of some sort. (I’ll try to explain this odd mixture concerning our individuation process and hopefully you might be able to provide some helpful insights.)

We know that from a Jungian perspective the Shadow is a dimension of ourselves, not just something evil or destructive thing but may also contain great undiscovered potential if understood and realized properly. (So possibly as a messenger that connects us with our inner drive to express itself or put another way the combination of the “self” as ego and the “S”elf as archetype and regulator of the entire psyche); whether through our goals, our relationships, our identity related pursuits, our desire to understand our existence within the world around us; and that often some element or situation and will intervene in our path out of nowhere to either inform, transform or cause mischief or even worse tear through what we’ve been doing leaving us baffled to reconstruct a new path forward. (Please forgive the ragged attempt here for I know this may be confusing, but I’m trying to hold this explanation together so that it makes sense; so please bear with me.)

Now one school of thought is that this “phenomenon”; for lack of a better word; is actually a (manifestation) of one’s inner wish and that we have been pulled off track; and this “trickster” element; (again for lack of a better term); appears to in a way re-direct us. (Sounds confusing, I know.) But this out-of-nowhere force could also be seen as “Cupids Arrow”, as “fate” telling you to take another path and start all over again, or it could be a “Power Drive” awakened or destroyed; or any number of other things that interrupt where one is headed, whether by intent or by not being aware of what our heart may be telling us. A clue might be “Adler’s drive to power” that Joseph mentioned as opposed to the unaddressed life wish or even romance. (Stay with me.)

So we have the introvert/extrovert expressions of the psyche which in later life may switch sides because career goals may have been attained and now, we have what Joseph called: “disposable Libido” or (psychic energy); that Joseph says needs a place to go; (and where is that but down into the unconscious stirring up all those unaddressed issues that have been laying dormant ready to be awakened and either cause trouble or inspire new life. Perhaps “enantiodromia”, but not sure how much of this concept applies.

(Still with me?) So now we get to “synchronicity”; or what we might call meaningful coincidental moments of chance; where something comes out of nowhere as a sign, signal, message or notice to get your attention. (And yes, I can provide an example of something that happened recently if needed; but that would further confuse my humble explanation which is already top-heavy as it is.)

Now we get to “divination”; which in Jungian themes could be the psyche’s attempt; (like the migration call or summons of animals to go where they are supposed to); as if a message from a mystical realm that tells them this is what I should do. Some might call this fate or destiny or something else entirely. But we know that things like Dream tending, tarot cards, I-Ching coins or sticks, as some examples or forms of divination are helpful to many people who feel they would like additional helpmates to discover if they are headed in the right direction; (whatever that thing is that feels right for them, or is missing, or again in Jungian terms: “intuition”; this would be one of Jungs’ 4 functions: thinking, feeling, sensation, intuition).

We get “lost” in the world of masks; and Joseph mentioned in Diane Osbon’s book: “Reflections in the Art of Living – A Joseph Campbell Companion”; as I think Stephen was referring to – that one way of: “not being on track or to get sidetracked is to go to a cocktail party”; which I would interpret as getting side-tracked off one’s Bliss Path. But Joseph often used metaphors in a number of different ways. So, my point is that in this tremendously complex world we are trying to navigate we need all the devices we can get at our disposal; whether by having our astrology chart read, or having a tarot reading, throwing the I-Ching, or following “synchronistic” clues as I just mentioned. Because we live in two worlds of the inner and the outer, and we must learn to reconcile them together. Jung was hugely interested in the occult, and indeed (Jungs’ sidekick, as it were): Marie Louise Von Franz; has written extensively on this topic in her book: “On Divination and Synchronicity”; and I’m hoping you may have some interesting insights to offer on my clumsy patchwork inquiry. Sorry my attempt at this really is such a mess, but I’ve been trying to figure out how to put this into words for days now ever since your essay first posted.

Again, so very glad to have you back among us with your warm and caring spirit; And that the Sun may someday again shine to heal the darkness those around you are enduring in Ukraine. Namaste
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As a quick addendum reference concerning Joseph’s interpretation and ideas of Jung’s thoughts and his own applications these can be found in more exacting detail in Audio Lecture II.6.I – “Modern Myths of Quest”. This lecture has been especially helpful in breaking down Jungian themes and marrying them with Joseph’s ideas because he states much of his thought somewhat differently than in his other Jungian lectures.

Joanna; I was thinking about our wonderful conversation last night and it reminded of a particular quote that came to mind about one’s inner Dragon that keeps us from following our call.

You said:

“for me two things are more important now than they have ever been before: heart-centered courage, and amor fati, or love of one’s fate — which can be challenging, to say the least. But if fati were easy, we wouldn’t have to work at loving it!

I believe we can do whatever we are called upon to do. The questions are, will we listen and hear the callings of our hearts? And when we act on them, how will we do it? Will we drag our feet, or will we dance along the way?”

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So often the world tells us we are not worthy or that what we are thinking about doing may be silly or childish or that we may not measure up to others’ expectations and we continue on doing things that keep us in the village compound where it’s safe and warm and we are not challenged about our beliefs in either ourselves or the quest that may be calling us from inside. Here is another clip where Joseph shares his thoughts about our inner Dragon with Bill Moyers; again from: “The Power of Myth”.

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I’m not sure but it sounds like it would address at least part of what Doro was suggesting also.

Doro said;

“Authentic is a dope place, where one gives up hamfisted connection to material and imaginary realms, and works, works hard to connect to the divine telepathic voice within.  That means working hard to disconnect from defense mechanisms, vanity, recognition and all the other unrealistic predatory illusions that detach us from the fantastic planetary showtime we so quickly reject.”

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Again Joanna, thank you for your extremely helpful insights!

Thank you so much Joanna; your kindness helps more than you know! Yes, I was feeling extremely uncertain concerning how I was interpreting this outer landscape we are all navigating right now. And your insights concerning one’s authenticity really help put what I was feeling into a more balanced perspective. You made my night! Namaste

Joanna, a very warm welcome back to the forums.
Joanna and Stephen, bishopme brings up what I think is an extremely important connection of the psyche as to the Jungian concept of projection and its’ ability to evoke or conjure up the “dark side” in human nature and to be influenced by and for political purposes. Indeed, the Star Wars concept of the “power of dark side” I think is an interesting metaphor which Joseph expounds on at length in: “The Power of Myth” as a perfect example. (There was an open disclaimer on this clip about learning to live within a system, so I hope there is no copyright conflict. But it makes the point extremely well concerning the psyche.) My apologies but I’m not familiar enough with the point Doro was bringing up to comment, so I’ll leave that up to everyone else.

For instance, the US political consciousness as to the use of “hatred” as a weapon for political purposes; or what Joseph might have called the demonizing aspect of the other side and its’ ability to conjure, evoke, manipulate, emotions for political ends and purposes has put so many people at risk of harm because they do or do not agree about something. The ability to turn a “thou into an it” and use it as a device to spread fear and uncertainty, or to turn ones’ idea of their neighbor into their opponent or even worse their enemy. It’s an age-old tactic used by clerics and politicians to drive a point of view, but with possible disastrous results as with yesterday’s “4th of July shooting” by a mentally disturbed or deranged young individual who has lost touch with reality as just one of many possible examples like that of school shootings and other public massacres.

Guns and violence as an expression of anger or paranoia are a deadly mix that this country is now trying to come to terms with; and getting both political sides to agree on how to solve it is proving an almost insurmountable task at the moment. And emotional projection of shadow contents onto another because of fear or some other anxiety driven emotion I think is a major social and political concern right now that we as individuals must learn how to recognize. In other words, I think this is more than just a “golden rule” issue but a major psychological concern countries across the planet are now having to confront. So: “lions, tigers, and bears, Oh my!” I think hits the nail right on the head, so to speak, as a huge social as well as individual concern right now.

It was hard enough to get people to wear masks during this last Covid pandemic surge; and it’s not over yet either as new variants continue to emerge. How people handle fear is one thing, but “projection” can take on many faces, and bishopme and your interest in this particular feature might open some interesting aspects to explore. Stephen or anyone else may also have some interesting thoughts about this to add as well.

Please forgive my rather clumsy attempt at description, but hopefully it will be enough to illustrate what I’m trying to get at.

As this week draws to a close on this very insightful discussion; I want to add a few footnotes that I have been thinking about on this topic concerning: cemeteries, meaning, mortality, and legacy for we all with grapple with this subject in one way or another as a fact or consequence of the living of our lives. In other words, as the curtain of our lives draws to a close, we are compelled to ask ourselves: “What is the meaning of my life? What do I leave behind as my legacy for others? Is it a boon, a story, a task completed, a family or children to which my life draws meaning, or perhaps some other nebulous or undefined aspect from which I drew purpose to which my life was tethered? Perhaps a story unfinished, or a road taken that ended badly?

So often society sends us messages that a life worth living is something “grandiose”, some heroic act or accomplishment that promotes celebrity or turns one’s self-image into a persona mask that hides what is really behind the facade. The masquerade of surface display over which the choreography of our everyday life can become inflated.) Jung warns us not to mistake this veneer for who we really are, for in later life what is behind this mask begins to show through and we must integrate this reality of our shadow side to become whole. In other words, we may not be who we think we are, and part of the task of our journey is to come to terms with this other side of our nature.

So many things in the media for instance “mistake a hero for a celebrity”, and they are not the same. As Joseph mentions to Bill Moyers in “The Power of Myth”, the hero goes for something that benefits others as well as him or herself; and the hero is “not a brand”, but an archetype or mode of experience of transcendence that wears many faces that refers to that aspect potential in all of us. So often I think many of us see our lives in such a way that unless some kind of victory or accomplishment is achieved that our life might be seen as a failure. (In my view that is mistaking the act for the intent.) How many parents, teachers, friends, and others whom we have known through which our life has been enriched; that without knowing them or having them in our lives for whatever brief moment we’ve been allowed – our life would be so much poorer.

Every life has value and is worth remembering, yet how many people die and the life they lived disappears into the ethers. The homeless many times have no grave markers that they were here. Cemetaries sometimes disappear that contain the graves of countless individuals over time are gone forever without a trace for whatever reason. Indian burial sites torn up for some kind of development of one type or another. Civilizations come and go, yet we stand on this very same “timeless ground” they once occupied.

We look to the stars for answers to these huge questions about the meaning of our existence and the overwhelming experience that we are but grains of sand on the endless shores of time and what it all means, and yet we get silence. These questions are not new, but the same ones that man has asked throughout human history. And wars have been fought about which God or belief system we must follow. But Joseph mentions in numerous places throughout his work that “we” supply the answer of what our life means, not the “thou-shalt” system of some religion, priest, or guru. And the meaning must come from us, from our experience, from our compassion and empathy for others, from the trials and tribulations we endure. From the alchemy of our struggles to find out who and what we are, and that the rapture and horror of our experience of life: “is” the gift; “right here – right now”. Not in heaven at some future date; but in our journey/process of now.

He mentions “time” is a duality, and duality always brings one side losses and one side wins. But the experience of our life and its’ purpose lies in the middle way. That the “epiphany” revelation of the transcendent function; (which Jung talks about); comes from holding the tension in our psyche between the opposing warring sides of our individual crisis when we are being pulled apart, and the symbolic realization which unites these opposing realities into a new way of being or thinking dissolves the blockage that keeps us out of our Garden. (The Garden is here spread upon the earth, but men do not see it.); is the biblical quote he uses. But the journey to getting there to find this Holy Grail through all the trials of the Dark Forest that Parsival struggles through is the dark night of the soul that must be battled though. We go down into the depths of our inner psyche to slay our inner Dragons and personal demons, and by doing so we “earn” the answer to our quest through our struggles, and this hero element is in every one of us as we ask these eternal big questions about: Cemetaries, existence, and what it all means.

I so very much appreciate John’s and Stephen’s insights concerning my earlier questions for they helped me resolve a number of internal issues I have been struggling with concerning this topic. And I hope my humble entry makes a bit of sense. Namaste

John and Stephen; I was wondering if we could explore a little deeper the context around mythic relationships with the idea of existence and meaning when we experience personal loss of those we have known. I want to back up a bit and explain a bit further what I’m trying to clarify. Cemetaries, mourning, the life and death reflection on the meaning of our lives as we evolve through the life process.

When Joseph in one of his lectures to his students used a particular “metaphor”, he asks them; “Are we the light bulb; or are we the light of which the bulb is but a vehicle?”

This would be a symbolic metaphor of a larger concept on the nature of our existence. But in the Jewish-Christian religion for example you die and go to Heaven; (another symbolic metaphor which conveys a certain type of meaning concerning the “Afterlife”). But where I’m going with this has to do with how human existence is enclosed within a certain kind framework that says that’s all there is; and people are left with this tremendous burden of assimilating the meaning of their own life within this specific context. In other words, we as human beings exist within a Universe of incomprehensible size, depth, and profound mystery; and we are left to assimilate what this means within the context of our own lives; and Joseph explains this in a much different way than just the metaphor of a “light bulb that holds the light”. I’m not attempting to slip out the back door of Eastern concepts such as Brachman or the endless recycling of life from one body to the next. (What I’m really concerned with is how we assign the deeper meaning to our lives through reflection and the privilege, rapture, wonder, (and yes; the suffering and terror and heartache of this Grand Opera of being alive. As Shakespeare reminds us: “We are only players on this “stage called life”; we play our part and it’s up to us; (as Joseph suggests): to assign the meaning of it all and to take it from there until we too arrive at this final destination of the “womb to the tomb”.

For instance, I said:

“The term Mnemosyne is derived from the same source as the word mnemonic, that being the Greek word mnēmē, which means “remembrance, memory”. Mnemosyne. Goddess of memory and meaning.”

“And a term often referred to when describing a symbol of some sort that recalls an important memory or experience is called a: “mnemonic trigger” and indeed these devices are often used in storytelling to illustrate the larger context of something one is referring to within a plot or storyline. And throughout human history cemeteries are often the places where people go to commune with the spiritual relationship of a loved one who has passed and their family as well. They are not just repositories for the dead but places of reverence that remind us of the impermanence of our existence and the meaning of our lives.”

Plays, books, and all manner of story and song constantly reminds us of this 3-act drama; (we are born; we grow up and evolve; and then we must get ready for our final passage to whatever awaits us in the larger “here-after”; (whatever that may be). But there is no argument as to this indisputable reality. (It’s what happens in-between that counts, and the meaning we assign to this experience we call “life”. One of my favorite examples is the Christmas story called: “It’s a Wonderful Life”; where the Hero is forced to contemplate just such issues. (And, again with a similar theme in Charles Dicken’s: “A Christmas Carol”). Both have “Graveyard” crisis points where the confrontation with one’s own mortality forces a decision on how the individual is to come to terms with the one life they are given and how they are going to live it.

I hope you’ll forgive the late reply to this topic but there were several reasons I waited before responding. One is the theme which I originally inserted which was “Memorial Day”; (and I wasn’t quite sure where the topic was going to go from there). And two, I wanted to give others a chance to respond since this was John’s MythBlast in the first place. There were outside factors that influenced my thinking about this that were extremely personal. One was a “synchronistic” occurrence where my brother sent me an email that he was visiting “my mother’s grave”; (who unfortunately had committed suicide some 50 years ago); the very minute this topic posted. (Yes, it seems these kinds of things have a way of getting your immediate attention in a way that makes your emotional radar wakeup that says: “this may be important”); so; I’ve been somewhat hesitant before jumping back in till enough time had passed and finding the right words to explain my thoughts properly.

I hope this is not too convoluted because I’ve been wrestling with this topic response about this for days and wanted to make sure I was on solid ground before posting it. We all have our own individuation process that is unique to each of us; so, I’ve tried to present this as clearly as I could without it getting too confusing. And I didn’t want to take anything away from the wonderful earlier posts that both you and Stephen have already presented.

Again, this is a great conversation you’ve got going; I just wanted to make sure all my ducks were lined up before presenting it. Namaste

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Since this post is new and has not been responded to yet I want to include a short addendum which may help better clarify part of what I’m attempting to address. “How we grieve and what this may have to do with our own personal as well as collective myths.” Joseph had several ways that addressed this area including one short clip I will leave here. Our ceremonies and collective rites of passage is one area; (but we also have a “personal” dimension in the way we mourn someone and “reconcile our relationship to life” as well).

Welcome back Mark, great to talk with you again. Rickkar1 brings up an interesting aspect to what you were describing in that we all talk in metaphoric references to things because they connect what we experience and have meaning to communicate to people in a way that makes sense. We tell stories, we describe by references that use metaphors to connect the dots so to speak. Myths have to do with stories that have certain narratives. They contain content that hold groups of ideas that surround a certain point of view or that communicate something identifiable that has meaning or value. Not everything that is metaphoric is mythic or course; but we often substitute a metaphor as a quick way to establish what we are attempting to communicate without having to go to great lengths to explain it’s background of what the relationship of one thing to another is or to establish a bridge between ideas that is understandable; or at least helps to better express what we are trying to communicate.

Robert Walters explains this very well in this short clip from some years ago and it seems to fit your idea of a narrative that uses these kinds of metaphoric devices as we communicate in our day to day lives but at the same time try and make sense of our world and our existence. It may not be exactly on point with what you are describing but immediately came to mind and seemed get at Joseph’s idea about mythical relationships in how we navigate our world.