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April 30, 2020 at 4:58 am in reply to: Realizations Upon Reading the Hero With a Thousand Faces #3021
WHERE DO MYTHS COME FROM?
It’s the experience of death that I regard as the beginning of mythic thinking – the actual seeing of someone dead who was alive and talking to you yesterday – dead, cold, beginning to rot. Where did the life go? That’s the beginning of myth.
That’s what happened, I think, in the Paleolithic caves when burials came in. “I thought that was all you were, but now, my gosh, there’s another dimension to this.” And if that can be recognized after death, well, to have it recognized before death, look what it does!
Whether a Neanderthal hunter-gatherer, or a small child in our contemporary era, the imaginal process would appear to be the same . . .”Dear Stephen, I had to read this over and over again because although it sounds really simple to understand, but actually I felt that was just the surface of the ocean. But there’s something that just keep coming into my head and that is the object of a circle. At the end or once where the last breath was given by the dying, after the spirit has left its body, where does it go? I remembered looking around for my grandpa after he just gave his last breath. I tried to imagine (the childish side), but I just knew quietly that he’s getting a different kind of view from where he’s at. We will never know of course.
The circle that I kept thinking about after talking to my girlfriend, she said it’s the circle that I go back to the beginning again. The place that I have to start again with myself. What happened was, I felt my grandpa was telling me to let go all of the anger and accusations I had with one of my family members from what they’ve done before to my dad. During my grandpa’s last breath, that message just somehow came into me as I watched him. Like he knew what was holding me hostage on the inside…so after that message he passed away. Then right after, my uncle came in (he was the one) with my cousins, and he wept. Then I knew what my grandpa meant (he didn’t speak, I just only looked at him.) So it began a new relationship with my uncle and my cousins. I have to say that I am so grateful and finally able to open up to him. For me, that’s just one of the circles in life, and yet more will come and they’ll all be together like a Native American tapestry or weaved circles intertwined together. (I came in full circle for this part, because I realized mankind can spend their whole lives hating and killing each other. What good does that ever do to anybody?)
So death perhaps isn’t so much the end…its not the end, it maybe the end for a certain material body, but the spirit will transcend. Or maybe the spirit was never meant to remain on this material world ever, the spirit was never from this place in the beginning.
April 30, 2020 at 4:14 am in reply to: Realizations Upon Reading the Hero With a Thousand Faces #3020Hi Mary, thanks for the reply but unfortunately I’m not a bird person, nor do I ever wanted one, and I wish I’d knew what kind of bird it was, because I never paid attention to what species it was or what kind of bird it was…all I knew was that its not doing well and dying here in front of my girlfriend and I. Now that you mentioned it, it was strange because I knew it was a bird, but I didn’t categorize with a logical mind, or look at it with ‘scientific view?’ but if it was a pigeon or perhaps other animals, that point of encountering a life that’s dying on your door step, I guess I would like to ask all of us (as people), what would you do? If its an insect, well I’ll be honest, its also a life, but I don’t think I would feel the same compare to a bird. Strange…its biased. But for the bird, it’s more apparent to ‘feel’ because I was able to see it’s head movements, and the little expressions? and was able to look at its eyes. Honestly, insects are another form of life that has a spirit too….but I’m no Holy man.
When I saw the bird slowly dying away, honestly…I was also recalling the same moment when I was with my grandpa alone in the hospital during his last breath. When I was with my grandpa, I recalled the dying bird on the door step. That quiet, and solemn glow in the eyes, I’d like to think that perhaps its the sparkling spirit that still dances in that material body. Is this why that bird came to my girlfriend’s door step? was it a sign? Or somehow was it because it knew that it was a peaceful place to release it’s spirit? And why am I the one end up seeing this? (why Me? the bird could be anywhere to die?) And why am I the only person who’s there with my grandpa for his last breath? (I did call out to him to stay longer so that the whole family would get here since their on their way. He had heard me because his eyes got teary, but something just calmly tells me to let him go.) The bird’s look in the eyes, that stillness before leaving this world…its the same for all life with the spirit in the world. I would say, my grandpa and the bird both passed away peacefully. I’m not a smart business man, or an entrepreneur, or some optimistic business inherit person in my family..but I always find fascination with Native American spirituality, their view point with this world, just their way of life and so on.
I didn’t feel any helplessness or guilt, because it was a different situation. I didn’t understand exactly what was happening with the bird, and we were just doing what we could to save it. I knew there maybe other factors to break down the details of what went wrong, but there’s no point to force anything. Maybe it’s a blessing? to have the chance of looking at a life going away? Maybe the bird is telling me something, just as my grandpa is telling me still to this day, the mysteries of life and our spirit.
Thank You Stephen! I’ll be sure to look around.
“but I am finding more and more of us are looking at that on a deeper level, expanding our understanding of the instruction to “go inside.” It’s “as if,” to borrow Joe’s phrase, the coronavirus (perhaps as the agent of Mother Nature, or the Earth — good old Gaia – is advising us to turn inward, explore our own depths.
Or, at any rate, that’s how I prefer to mythologize and re-imagine what’s happening.”
I’ll keep this quote and start from here^_^
Hi Michael! Thanks for the reply, I hope everything is fine and good for you. I actually felt that it’s quite ironic, that myth-wise in today’s world isn’t really about dragons, or monsters, or having the hero travel thousands of miles to reach their goals. It’s not about ‘going out’ there somewhere, or identifying obstacles (dragons) outside of us, though it could be still. But what this pandemic has really brought out in the world, is the inner darkness as well. That cave, which has always been defined as the place where the greatest treasure were hidden, is actually a metaphor of people ourselves.
I do believe that nowadays, its becoming even more apparent that we have to deal with ourselves, and look at ourselves to be more aware of our own place in the world.Stay Safe and Stay Healthy
William
April 22, 2020 at 4:47 am in reply to: Realizations Upon Reading the Hero With a Thousand Faces #2888Sorry, I’m afraid my vocabulary isn’t so colorful..but Mary Ann, on the part where you said you’d find dead birds around where you lived as a child, I found myself facing a similar situation. I never came across death at an early age, never came across dying of anything other than killing cockroaches and insects. But about a year ago, I couldn’t really understand what made me do the thing I did. While my girlfriend was watering her garden outside the house, I came out and suddenly found a bird getting stuck beneath the hose, it was still alive and it didn’t move. So I called my girlfriend to see what’s going on. The little bird just stood there not moving, but her eyes are still opening and head moving. So an old gardener from the neighbor came by and checked on the little bird, and says maybe she’s sick, because the poor thing wouldn’t fly and won’t walk away. Then after a moment the little bird slowly slumped and fell over. I was shocked and tried to support it, did what I could to put her in a shoe box support with clothes and water, and we drove her to the animal vet.
I don’t know what was going on in my head, but the thoughts weren’t like in logical order, not like a thought process of a computer. But rather, I found myself and my girlfriend just looking at the bird at every moment and anticipating what happens next. I remembered I looked at the bird’s eyes, and wondered if she knew we’re trying to help her. Was she scared? Maybe..Was she conscious? Perhaps, But why was she here? outside the doorstep of my girlfriends house? The little bird passed away in the shoe box while my girlfriend was driving to the clinic. Right before she died, I heard from the shoe box, the little bird calling out twice then her body went still and stiff. The clinic doctor felt sorry, because out of the blue, two strangers walk in with a bird in a box. We never thought of anything else, or maybe how ridiculous we may look to others….all we were trying to do is to save the little bird….then we took her back to my girlfriend’s garden and buried the little bird in the back yard.
Now is there life after death? What happened to that little bird, all of sudden her body went stiff, and her eyes stopped moving? What happened when she wouldn’t move? Where did she go? These questions now still come to me. It might be the precious opportunity that showed up that’s trying to teach me about something…what is it? It felt like a riddle, but it certainly doesn’t feel good at all, when something just dies….you could see it, you could feel it, the differences of life and death. But is death really the end of life itself??? I think maybe this question can relate to Mary Ann’s (yours) childhood fascination with mummies. So I think I’ll just return the question back to her…Mary Ann, could you remember what was going on in your thoughts as a child when you looked at the mummies? -
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Before you start posting and responding in these forums, please read and follow the following guidelines:
- 1. Respect Others You may certainly take issue with ideas, but please — no flaming / ranting, and no personal or ad hominem attacks. Should the opinion of another forum member spark your anger, please take a deep breath, and/or a break, before posting. Posts must be on topic – related to mythic themes.
- 2. Respect Others’ Opinions These are conversations, not conversions. “Conversation” comes from the Latin words con (“with”) and verso (“opposite”). We expect diverse opinions to be expressed in these forums, and welcome them – but just because you disagree with what someone has to say doesn’t mean they don’t get to say it.
- 3. Come Clear of Mind In addition to expanding the mind, certain substances (alcohol, cocaine, marijuana, LSD, etc.) have been known to impair good judgment. We recommend you keep a journal while under the influence and then later make more rational determinations regarding what is appropriate to share in this forum.
- 4. Respect This Space The Joseph Campbell Foundation, a US not-for-profit organization, offers this forum as part of our mission of continuing Mr. Campbell’s work of increasing the level of public awareness and public discourse with regards to comparative mythology.
- 5. Avoid Contemporary Politics Given the volatile nature of contemporary political discourse, we ask that members steer clear of candidates or current political controversies. Forum members come from across the political spectrum. There are other fora across the internet for discussing myth and politics.
- 6. Be Polite Forum members come from many different sets of cultural assumptions, and many different parts of the world. Please refrain from language whose only purpose is offense. If it helps, imagine your grandmother reading forum posts – as perhaps she may, since other folks’ grandmothers are.
- 7. Refrain from Sexually Explicit Posts Please do not make sexually explicit posts within these forums, unless they are absolutely germane to the discussion underway – and even in that case, please try to warn readers at the top of your post. Not all members have the same threshold when it comes to taking offense to language and pictures. NOTE: Under no circumstances will we condone the posting of links to sites that include child pornography, even inadvertently. We will request that such links be removed immediately, and will remove them ourselves if compliance is not forthcoming. Any Associate knowingly posting such links will be suspended immediately; we will forward a snapshot of the offending page, the web address and the associate’s contact information to the appropriate criminal authorities
- 8. Refrain from Self-Promotion Announcements linking to your new blog post, book, workshop, video clip, etc., will be deleted, unless they are demonstrably part of the greater conversation. The only exception is the Share-Your-Work Gallery, a subforum within The Conversation with a Thousand Faces. If you have art, poetry, writing, or links to music and other work you would like to share, do so here.
- 9. Search First If you’re thinking of starting a new topic, asking a question, etc., please take advantage of the search functionality of this forum! You can find the search field above the list of forums on the main page of the forums. Also, consider searching on the greater JCF website – this site is full of amazing resources on a wide variety of topics, all just a search away.
- 10. Report Violations If you witness or experience behavior that you feel is contrary to the letter or spirit of these guidelines, please report it rather than attacking other members. Do this by choosing the Report button (next to “Reply”) at the top of the post, and select a reason from the dropdown menu (Spam, Advertising, Harassment, or Inappropriate Content). The moderation team will be notified. Depending on the degree of bad behavior, further posts might require approval, or the user could be blocked from posting and even banned.
- 11. Private Messages Forum guidelines apply to all onsite private communications between members. Moderators do not have access to private exchanges, so if you receive messages from another member with inappropriate or hostile content, send a private message (with screenshots) to Stephen Gerringer and/or Michael Lambert.
Visit the Contact the Foundation page, select Technical Support, and fill out the contact form.
The Conversations of a Higher Order (COHO) consists of ten public forums loosely focused on a central theme. The forums are listed, with a brief description, on the COHO home page (each forum listed on that page also appears in the same order in the menu in the lefthand column – that menu stays with you as you move about the forums). This also shows who created the last post in each forum, and when.
When you visit a specific forum you will see the list of topics people have posted so far in that forum. Click on one to read that post and any replies. Feel free to add a reply if you have something to share, or just enjoy following the conversation. You can return to the COHO home page by clicking the "Home>Forums" breadcrumb at the top of the page – or move directly to a different forum by clicking on one of the listings from the forum menu in the lefthand column of the page.
If there’s anything you want to introduce – a question, an observation, or anything related to Campbell, myth, or one of his many related interests – create a topic in the forum you feel comes closest to including the subject you want to discuss. Most forums include in their description a link to a corresponding part of the website. For example, The Work of Joseph Campbell description has a link to all his published works: you can of course focus on a specific book or lecture, but also any topic related to the ideas arising out of his work is welcome in that forum.
When posting a new topic or a reply to an existing conversation, check the “Notify me of follow-up replies via email” box (conversations unfold at a leisurely pace: someone might need a few days to let what you write simmer in the back of their brain – this is how you find out someone has replied), and then click Submit. You can also click "Favorite" (top of the page on the right when reading forum threads) to be notified of all responses in a discussion.
Click on the Profile link under your user name in the upper left corner above the forum menu. Then select Edit and follow the prompts to upload an image file from your computer.
When you finish your post, before clicking the Submit button check the box at the bottom of your post that reads, “Notify me of follow-up replies via email.” You can also click on “Subscribe” (in the upper right corner of a thread) to follow the complete conversation (often a comment on someone else’s post might inspire a response from you).
We ask that when linking to web pages, please avoid posting the raw URL address in your text. Highlight the relevant text you'd like to link in your post, then select the link icon in your formatting bar above your post (immediately to the left of the picture icon, this looks like a diagonal paperclip). This opens a small field:
Paste the URL of the page you are linking to into the field provided. Then click on the gear icon to the right of that field, and check the box that says “Open link in a new tab” (so readers can see your link without having to navigate back to the forums), before clicking the green “Add Link” button.
To add an image to your post, click on the image icon in the menu at the top of your post (it's the icon on the far right):
In the Source field of the pop-up form, click on the camera icon on the far right. This should give you access to the files on your PC / laptop, or the photo library on your mobile device. Select the image, and add a brief description (e.g., "Minoan Goddess") in the appropriate field.
In the dimensions field, you only need enter the first number (240 is a good size for starters; if too small click the edit icon and increase that number). Then select OK.
Click on the name of the person you want to contact (under their avatar in a any of their posts). This link will take you to that member’s profile page. Then click on “Send a Message,” and compose.
If you witness or experience behavior that you feel is contrary to the letter or spirit of these guidelines, please report it rather than attacking other members. Do this by choosing the Report button (next to “Reply”) at the top of the post, and select a reason from the dropdown menu (Spam, Advertising, Harassment, or Inappropriate Content). The moderation team will be notified. Depending on the degree of bad behavior, further posts might require approval, or the user could be blocked from posting and even banned.
Visit the Contact the Foundation page, select Community and Social Media, and fill out the contact form.